Miniatures Handbook

[Emirikol]

List Of Prestige Classes

All:

I'm continuing to work on a ranking system of the prestige classes and need the list from the Mini's handbook. Could someone please list it?

Thanks!

jh

P.s. If you want to list the minimum class+level requirements, please do so. Here's the system I'm using:
HOW TO USE THIS GUIDE

This guide is designed for scenario authors, DM’s and players to see what classes are most readily available to them and at what levels. Although only the first two levels of many of these prestige classes (PrC’s) are given, you can see more details at: www.Crystal-Keep.com

MINIMUM LEVELS: The first listing is the quickest way to gain the PrC. Most feat-requiring classes are assumed to be human characters (add a level for all fighter-based listings that are non-human). Fighter was chosen over paladin or barbarian in most circumstances for feat-based PrC’s.

POWER RANKING (CR modifier): The second listing is the estimated POWER gained by 5th level in the PrC, graded 1-4 stars in comparison to taking an additional level in their main core class (e.g. a wizard prestige class is worth *** if they get +1 spell level in addition to other abilities). Coolness may be included, but power is the main factor.
(*) = weaker than taking a level in a core class (CR-1)
(**)= the same as taking a level of a core class (CR+0)
(***) = more powerful than a level in a core class (CR+1)
(****) = overly more powerful than a level in a core class (CR+3)

EXAMPLE:
DMG 3.5 (asterisked are new)
Arcane Archer- elfblood, Ftr6+Wiz/Sor1; ***
*Arcane Trickster-Wiz5+Rog3; ***
*Archmage-Wiz13; ***
Assassin- Rog1+Any4; **
Blackguard-Ftr/Rgr/Bbn/ex-Pal6; * ½
*Dragon Disciple-Sor6; **
*Duelist-Frt6; **
Dwarven Defender-dwarf, Ftr/Rgr/Bbn/Pal7; **
*Eldritch Knight-Wiz5; **
*Hierophant- Clr/Dru13; **
*Horizon Walker-Brd/Rgr/Wiz5; **
Loremaster--Wiz/Clr/Drd/Sor7; **½ arcane / * divine
*Mystic Theurge-Wiz3+Clr3; ****
*Red Wizard- Thavian-Wiz5; ***
Shadowdancer-Rog1+Any6; **
*Thaumaturgist-Clr7; ***

 

[Seule]

Can anyone post the requirements for the Cavalier, at least what's changed? I have a character who's about to level who is interested, and I'll not have the book until Christmas. Thanks.

--Seule

 

[Saeviomagy]

Warhulk I would disallow. That much strength sounds like a munchkin in the making. No, the no time to think does not make up for it. I have never found creating a deficit in what was already a weakness to be a particularly productive method of courterbalancing.

Eh? How does a lot of strength make for a munchkin? Over the course of 10 warhulk levels, you get some nifty throwing abilities, and +20 to strength.

No BAB means that the class gives you a total of +10 to hit and +10 to damage, and no extra iterative attacks. A 20th level character with this class will only have 2 attacks (albeit 2 attacks which hit everyone in range).

I've run the numbers, and the warhulk comes off (against a single opponent) being around about the same as a straight fighter, assuming that fighter is well built. Against mid-range AC's the warhulk performs a bit better (ie - opponents that are hit on around about a 10). On high and low ac's, the fighter performs better.

If you take a peek at the min-max boards at wotc, I think you'll find almost noone is using warhulk for min-max.

So blocking from an 'it's munchkin' view is not really achieving anything.

 

[MerricB]

Can anyone post the requirements for the Cavalier, at least what's changed? I have a character who's about to level who is interested, and I'll not have the book until Christmas. Thanks.

--Seule

The Cavalier is in the Complete Warrior, not the Miniatures Handbook.

That said:
Requirements:
Alignment: any lawful
BAB: +8
Skills: Handle Animal 4 ranks; Knowledge (nobility & royalty) 4 ranks; Ride 6 ranks.
Feats: Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (lance), Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack

The best changes to the cavalier are in how the cavalier's class levels stack with any paladin levels the character has for determining characteristics of a paladin's mount; and that a paladin may multiclass freely as a cavalier.

Cheers!

 

[Caliber]

I agree. I didn't think the Warhulk looked to munchkin either. You get +10 damage per hit in exchange for BAB advancement. Seems s'ok. Its like being on permanent auto-Power Attack, but without the last two attacks.

And I'm still wondering what I'd ever do if a character wanted to be a male Healer ...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I haven't seen the Miniatures Handbook, so this is only a casual observation, but a +20 strength would seem to affect far, far more than just +10 to attack and damage. It's also plus ten to grappling, disarming, tripping, bull rushing (not sure on this one but I think it requires an opposed strength check..?), most of a fighter's skills...

Adding to strength instead of BAB is an interesting mechanic, but while the PC loses out on iterative attacks, there are certainly a lot of advantages to it as well...

 

[Caliber]

The class, by and far, is meant for NPCs. You have to be large to qualify for it, and one of your first level "abilities" is the automatic reduction of most social-style skills to 0. Doesn't matter if you had ranks in them before, or if you devote skill points into them after. They're zero.

Not too bad for Joe Ogre. Could be crippling for a PC.

BAB applies to Grappling already (or at least it did in 3.0) but thats a pretty good point with the other maneuvers. Warhulks could also be used as large beasts of burden, since that high Strength score almost promises a rediculous amount of weight that can be carried, and thats before you even take into consideration the size increases.

Still though, I'd say its balanced.

 

[Gez]

Balanced maybe, but pointless. If I had written the class, it would have gotten a variant rage that would let him make a couple of big crushing blows (big Str bonus) as a full attack, at the price of an attack penalty (loss of precision). End result would have been about the same in combat; but with more consistency, and without the need to nerf skills or use a non-standard BAB.

 

[Dthamilaye]

Few issues I have. Well, not really issues but toughts.

1) When I saw Favored Soul, I compared him right away with sorcerer. Well, sorcerer lost in about every abilty and with great difference. Only way to think sorcerer could be on par with FS is if you think arcane spells so very much better than divine. I do not think so though.
Favored soul gets the wings, resistance (20? vs one and 10 vs two others), 3 good saves, better skills, weapon use, can wear armour, and gets to choose much more known spells. That last one is the biggest thing imho. If they are like sorcerer, they should have had the same known spells as sorcerer, ie, 555444333, instead of 666666666 (or about that, don't recall it exactly).


2) IMC, the large half-dragon barb/fighter/wiz/planarchampion likes very much the idea of starting Warhulk from 18th or 19th level and taking all 10 levels during 20th-30th level. Gain same bab as everyone, gain 20 str and hit everyone at reach in the end with his 4 iterative attacks plus haste. Oh, he does love the PrC .

 

[Psion]

Eh? How does a lot of strength make for a munchkin? Over the course of 10 warhulk levels, you get some nifty throwing abilities, and +20 to strength.

No BAB means that the class gives you a total of +10 to hit and +10 to damage, and no extra iterative attacks. A 20th level character with this class will only have 2 attacks (albeit 2 attacks which hit everyone in range).

I do not consider losing your two worst attacks a major hit. Gaining ten points of bonus damage that is useful against all targets and gainst the benefit of two handed fighting is a significant boon.

If you take a peek at the min-max boards at wotc, I think you'll find almost noone is using warhulk for min-max.

A) Give it time
B) Perhaps they consider MiniHB as valid a source as I do (i.e., not very.)
C) I hardly consider that a litmus test.

So blocking from an 'it's munchkin' view is not really achieving anything.

Oh-ho! So now you are the arbirter of what is appropriate for my campaign are you?

Listen... I have run half dragons in my game. Half dragons have a very similar tradeoff - three points of bab for +4 to hit and damage. That extra strength is VERY potent, and represents very nearly too much of a specialization. Over doubling it would be too much of a specialization.