Minion conversion rules

[Shadeydm]

Hello Folks,

I am trying to locate the rules/mechanics for converting "normal" monsters into minions. I have looked through the DMG and MM several times but cannot seem to locate conversion rules or any kind of template to apply. Assuming of course that the conversion isn't simply set hit points to 1 and a miss that causes damage has no effect.

Thanks,

 

[Squire James]

I don't use regular 4e minions, but there are certain patterns that seem to apply:

- Minions are generally 2-3 levels higher than the monster they're based on. Presumably, this is because something like a bugbear shouldn't be conisdered a minion until a certain level is reached.

- Minions have slightly higher defenses than the main monster, generally +2 to each defense. Since their defense is the only barrier to them falling down, presumably they require a more "solid" hit to really count.

- Minions do damage as if they rolled about a 2 on each damage die, and any special effect the base monster inflicts on a hit is toned down (immobilized -> slowed, stunned -> dazed, ongoing damage halved, etc.) or removed entirely.

- Minions have 1 HP.

Do each of these, and the resulting minion should be pretty close to what it should look like.

 

[Shadeydm]

Thanks James.

So to clarify there are no official conversion rules or template? Seems odd to me.

 

[Shadeydm]

How about adjusting xp if your changing a "normal" monster into a minion 25%? 10%?

Why aren't there rules for this process?

 

[Fede]

A minion should be worth 1/4 of a normal monster, so it should be 25% of normal monster's XP.

 

[Wepwawet]

- Minions are generally 2-3 levels higher than the monster they're based on. Presumably, this is because something like a bugbear shouldn't be conisdered a minion until a certain level is reached.

- Minions have slightly higher defenses than the main monster, generally +2 to each defense. Since their defense is the only barrier to them falling down, presumably they require a more "solid" hit to really count.

But if you increase both the level and the defenses, won't it be almost the same in the end, as not increasing anything?
2 levels higher implies +1 on the defenses. So you could just give them +1 to the defenses and leave their base level.

 

[Jack99]

- Minions are generally 2-3 levels higher than the monster they're based on. Presumably, this is because something like a bugbear shouldn't be conisdered a minion until a certain level is reached.

I am not sure this is a pattern.

- Minions have slightly higher defenses than the main monster, generally +2 to each defense. Since their defense is the only barrier to them falling down, presumably they require a more "solid" hit to really count.

This is because the minions you are looking at are higher level than the regular. This is not a minion feature.

Let's look at the level 8 soldiers from MM

Hobgoblin Warrior Level 8 Minion
Medium natural humanoid XP 88
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +6; low-light vision
HP 1: a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC 22 (24 with phalanx soldier); Fortitude 20, Reflex 18, Will 18

Hobgoblin Hand of Bane Level 8 Elite Soldier
Medium natural humanoid XP 700
Initiative +9 Senses Perception +8; low-light vision
HP 184; Bloodied 92; see also Bane’s blessing
AC 26; Fortitude 24, Reflex 22, Will 23
(Note that the hobgoblin above is elite, so withdraw 2 from 3 defenses before comparing)

Shadar-Kai Warrior Level 8 Soldier
Medium shadow humanoid XP 350
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +6; low-light vision
HP 86; Bloodied 43
AC 24; Fortitude 19, Reflex 20, Will 17
Speed 5; see also shadow jaunt

Angel of Valor Level 8 Soldier
Medium immortal humanoid (angel) XP 350
Initiative +10 Senses Perception +6
Angelic Presence Attacks against the angel of valor take a –2
penalty until the angel is bloodied.
HP 88; Bloodied 44
AC 24; Fortitude 22, Reflex 20, Will 19

Rot Scarab Swarm Level 8 Soldier
Medium shadow beast (swarm) XP 350
Initiative +9 Senses Perception +7; darkvision
HP 88; Bloodied 44
AC 22; Fortitude 21, Reflex 21, Will 19

As you will notice, both the defenses and AC seem to fall within the normal range of level. Minions do tend to have slightly lower stats the equal level monsters, but the difference is not huge.

So, basically, what I am saying is that you can take any humanoid that you want, change the hit points to 1, shave 3/4 of the XP, remove all but one or two attacks, and set the damage to almost a minimum and you have yourself a brand new minion. You might want to consider shaving 1 or 2 off the defenses, but basically, you are already there.

Hope it helped.

 

[jgsugden]

I'm betting the minion rules will appear in DMG II. They saved the Frost Giant for MM II, and I'm betting they saved the minion rules for DMG II.

This is how I make minions:

#1: Use the monster creation guidlines from the DMG to make a monster of the level you want as a minion.

#2: Change hps to 1, make all attacks deal minimum damage and xp = 24% of normal.

#3: Subtract 1 from all defenses (this isn't strictly necessary, AFAICT, as many MM I minions don't seem to have weakened defenses, but it worked for me).

#4: Add any racial quirks (powers, resistances, etc...) of the species of the minion, as long as the quirk doesn't get too powerful in mass numbers.

#5: Revel in my creativity.

I converted a 3.5 campaign to a 4E 18th level campaign. The main foes in the campaign consisted mostly of ogres and orcs (that had class levels in 3.5). Needless to say, I had a decent amount of experience converting monsters for 4E - many of which are minions.

 

[Kalbutt]

In the MM there are minions for practically each level.
You could just take one of the desired level and reskin it to fit your campaign.

 

[Nail]

This is how I make minions:....

Helpful! Thanks.


But "why, oh why...!" didn't they put the minion creature template in the DMG? Why?

<grumble, grumble...to make you buy another book....grumble, grumble>