Minion revision

[RangerWickett]

In my game, we use a slightly modified minion system which makes them a tiny bit beefier, while still letting you avoid tracking hit points. We had a problem with monsters, especially at paragon level or higher, dying to dinky auras, or to things like a pact dagger (which deals a few points of damage against a creature that misses you).

Our logic was, a normal monster usually takes 3 to 5 attacks to kill, and a minion is supposed to be 1/4 of a normal monster, so you should normally have to make an attack to kill a minion, not just dissolve them with a piddly 1 point of damage. Also, minions aren't really supposed to be waifs that crack at any injury -- a minion orc warrior ought to be able to jump off a 10-ft. ledge without dying. It's just that they're easy for the PCs to kill

Here's the system we use. If you have a better suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Minion Revision 1
Instead of having 1 hit point, a minion has HP equal to 5 + its level. But you don't track individual damage. Instead, every minion has three states - fine, bloodied, and dead (or unconscious).

Whenever damage is dealt to an unbloodied minion, if it is enough to kill it, it's dead. If the damage is more than its bloodied value, but not enough to kill it, it ends up bloodied. If the damage is less than its bloodied value, it ignores that damage. That damage is 'not narratively significant.'

Whenever damage is dealt to a bloodied minion, it dies.

We get rid of the rule that a miss never deals damage to a minion. Effects that trigger off of bloodying a foe (like certain bard powers), don't trigger off bloodying a minion.

The overall result is that minions are still easy to kill, and though they require a teeny tiny bit more effort to keep track of, they don't become utterly inconsequential at high level.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Thats a very reasonable system, seems to have all the bases covered and obviously gives consistant and therefore balanced results.

I use a different system (the credit for which goes to someone else here at Enworld), I keep minions exactly the same but change the value of them compared with a standard creature:

level 1 to 5 - 4 minions = 1 standard creature
level 6 to 10 - 5 minions = 1 standard creature
level 11 to 15 - 6 minion = 1 standard creature
level 16 to 20 - 7 minions = 1 standard creature
level 21 to 25 - 8 minions = 1 standard creature
level 26 to 30 - 9 minions = 1 standard creature

This balances things out by giving you a lot more minions to play with, I have run encounters with 65 minions in play at once. It really gives an epic scale, but keeps things moving along quickly.

NOTE: it still makes clerics burst 8 powers a little too effective but I have learnt to live with that.

If I want beefier minions I use my system for Elite minions.

Elite minions are exactly the same as normal minions, but are worth x2 the xp and the first time they take any amount of damage they are bloodied, the second time they take any amount of damage they are killed.

Again its a quick and simple system.

I am not saying that my system is better than yours, in fact I think yours might be very slightly more complicated but give better results. Especially in regards to warlocks curse which is usually instant death to 2 creatures as a free action.

 

[Garthanos]

Here is a minor complication that can be added to most any of the bloodiable minion rules.. if a number of minions are all hit at once in an area effect and would be all bloodied to make things more interesting 1 in 4 are dead/unconc and 1 in 4 are fine.

Can your minions be healed -- I want healable ally minions.

I am considering one more state and calling it wounded more on that later, its more to allow heartier npcs who I still dont want to track hitpoints with.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well I posted this thread primarily so I could link to it in the Noble - Martial Controller thread.

My idea is that if you're going to have expendable allies, use this type of minion. Allied minions don't die at 0. Instead, they die if a single attack does damage equal to:

a) if fine, 5 + (level x2)
b) if bloodied, 5 + level
c) if unconscious, level

Healing works on minions, but since they don't have healing surges, they just move up one step (unconscious, to bloodied, to fine). They only get one healing surge per combat, and cannot use second wind. But after a short rest, they return to bloodied if unconscious.

 

[timbannock]

Neat stuff. I may have to gank this to replace my current house rule:

"Minions that I like and want to keep around longer have two health levels: Bloodied and dead. They are Bloodied on the first hit that would have killed them (under the normal minion rules, that is), dead on the second. If the first hit is exceptional (a critical hit, a vastly overpowered artifact, an amazing damage roll...all as defined by the DM's whim), then the minion dies on the first hit instead."

I.e. lots of DM fiat, which I like.

But I like good, mechanical systems, too.