Minion Status: Private or Public?

[hamishspence]

OOTS and Minions

some references in Paladin Blues book make me think of that upgraded minion: Xykon to the hobgoblin who killed the silver Dragon: "Sorry we'll have to let you go, with all the XP you just gained you'll be overqualified for the position of Random Mook" So its not like the minion concept is a new thing, its just made very clear in 4th ed.

 

[SteveC]

Think of a great fantasy book you might have read. Maybe something by R.A. Salvator, Robert Jordan, or Weis/Hickman depending on your tastes. Now imagine a heroic fight scene where our protagonists are hacking through swarms of creatures, taking them out with their impressive skill and combat prowess. Now imagine the chief bad guy watching from a hill, shrugging, and saying, "Eh, they're only minions."

What would that do to your enjoyment of the battle you were reading about?

If you want to destroy all sense of suspence, drama, or tension in your game, identifying minions (or implementing any sort of WoW or EQ-esque /con function) (would be a great way to go about it.

I could not disagree with this more. The key distinction between minions, standard monsters and "bosses" is the kind of abilities you see used on them. In a novel or movie, the times at which a character uses his super-mega ability is completely at the discretion of the author. That means if he is going to write about a foe being cleaved in half is a spectacular fashion and will only use his awesome description once in the scene, he doesn't waste it on a mook that we don't care about at all: it's going to be saved for someone important.

Beyond that, when I read a fantasy author or watch a movie, it's painfully obvious to me visually who the mooks are and who is the real enemy. Watch and battle scene from Lord of the Rings and you see who the real threats are (the scene where Aragorn comes upon Boromir at the end of Fellowship is a great example). You don't get this sort of imagery in a tabletop RPG very effectively unless the GM gives you some sort of a clue as to what your different opponents are.

That's just my opinion, of course, but I'd rather have characters know when and when not to use their daily powers ... I think it does no harm at all to the verisimilitude of a scene.

--Steve

 

[Goobermunch]

I can say that you shouldn't give the PCs a monster's status. Because no matter how bad your PCs are, now matter how awesome you think they are going to do against the army of minions you've sent against them, minions are deadly when the party cannot roll above a 10 (and by that I mean--cannot roll above a 10 with all skill bonuses and attack bonuses included). And nothing hurts the egos of a pack of big bad adventurers more than having to flee from a ravening horde of minions.

--G

 

[ShinHakkaider]

LOL, it took 30 posts to get to a red shirt comment

Really, though, there should be NOTHING that tells the players who is and who is not a minion.

There may be clues, and the players might make some accurate guesses, but I like to think of it as if the monsters/bad guys were real in a real world. If so, minions would not call themselves minions, or think of themselves as minions. In battle, they will still use the best equipment available to them, and use the best tactics they can.

Seriously I agree with this. In a real fight between two or more groups of people it's not easy to tell who really knows how to fight unless you know beforehand. And usually once you start throwing down youre usually too busy trying not to get stabbed or hit in the face with a bat to pay much attention to what else is going on around you.

 

[Vaeron]

I could not disagree with this more. ...

That's just my opinion, of course, but I'd rather have characters know when and when not to use their daily powers ... I think it does no harm at all to the verisimilitude of a scene.

And I couldn't disagree with this more... Daily's aren't something PCs should use lightly. if the battle is tough, or they are losing, THEN they should use their daily's... They should save it up for when they need it, not just because a DM told them they were only facing minions.

In one of the WoTC blogs one of the writers comes right out and says a great way to make a tense encounter is to send a group of zombie minions against the PC, but have an actual zombie boss as one of the members of the encounter. I suppose saying "You see 6 zombie minions with one zombie lord pretending to be a minion" might work for some people, but I find it unacceptable.

I suppose it comes down to how gamist of a game you want to run. Personally, I prefer mine to be more RP heavy, with players making their own choices. Not everyone shares that view.

 

[Zil]

But if the DM doesn't give them any clues, they're reduced to guessing.
There isn't any learning curve there.

If the DM isn't giving any clues as to who the leaders are in your typical mixed group of opponents, then you probably don't have a good DM (or you have an inexperienced one).

On the other hand, if the DM simply announces "that's a level 3 cleric, that's a minion, and that's an elite whatever" then you might as well be playing a minis game where both sides have more perfect knowledge.

 

[lukelightning]

There must be some way to determine minion status other than "hit first, then find out." Perception. Sense motive. Some other skill. Because we all know that this will lead to "hide a super guy in a mess of minions, with no way of finding him." Which is fine for some special circumstances (though I think there should always be some method of finding the tough guy), but it shouldn't be the standard situation.

Personally, I prefer mine to be more RP heavy, with players making their own choices. Not everyone shares that view.

I don't see how keeping minions secret vs. open affect players making their own choices, other than the fact that secret minions would lead players to be wary of opening combat with their daily powers.

 

[Khur]

I describe minions differently, usually. I used to believe telling players was the way to go. Playtesting has taught me that by round 2, if the description wasn't clue enough, everyone knows who the minions are.

Playtesting has also taught me that, in general, it's a bad idea to blow a daily power right out of the gate in a fight. Since the tactical situation isn't always clear, it's almost always better to wait a round or two to determine where you should lay the smack down.

 

[Kunimatyu]

The last zombie left standing is the one who happens to be the super-nasty Elite that shanks the wizard, all the rest are minions.

Duh.

 

[hennebeck]

In my game it will be easy to identify them. They will be wearing red shirts.

You went there. *sigh*