Minions whatever the system

[Turanil]

In reading 4e threads, I have seen this come up often: the 1 HP minions.

First, can someone tell me about this concept of "minion" in 4e? It seems borrowed from Savage Worlds, with a bizarre implementation. I keep hearing 1 hp minions is a dumb idea, but why minions should have 1 hp only? Why a GM may not have a 4e minion with 4, 5, 10 hp? Then, what would be a minion in d20, C&C, AD&D? I guess a base 1d8 HD orc could get but 1 hp, and become a minion? Or what about regular orcs (say 4 hp) being considered minions, and then the leader and elite orcs have class levels, making them much better in combat?

By the way, historically, the word "minion" certainly didn't equate with red-shirt canon-fodder.

Minion is a term for favourites or protégés, especially those of a monarch or prince at a royal court. Unlike a henchman or lackey, although of subordinate rank to his patron a minion is likely to be of noble birth or to be raised to the nobility, and is more of a companion and confidant to him than a servant or bodyguard.

On the other hand, maybe those mignons only had 1 hp?

 

[Byronic]

I think that if you have a nice big encounter with (let's say) 10 minions you might not want to keep track of their damage. Best to just let them die.

 

[jdrakeh]

By the way, historically, the word "minion" certainly didn't equate with red-shirt canon-fodder.

The term "minion" in D&D 4e is synonymous with "mook" in games like Feng Shui (c 1995). In D&D 4e, 1 HP "minions" are specifcally for NPCs that don't matter in the larger adventure, like the "mooks" of Feng Shui, the "extras" of many old FGU games, the "henchmen" of James Bond 007, etc. D&D 4e's "minions" are basically a time-saving convenience for GMs and a tool for PCs that facilitates cinematic action. NPCs are not required to have 1 HP hirelings or servants in D&D 4e as you imply. If you want your villain's henchmen to matter in the larger scope of the adventure (or if you don't want a cinematic campaign) you don't use the mook rules. Simple.

 

[drothgery]

First, can someone tell me about this concept of "minion" in 4e? It seems borrowed from Savage Worlds, with a bizarre implementation.

4e minions are a mechanical simplification to make hordes of less-powerful opponents a credible threat, and easy to manage. They have level-approriate attacks and defenses (though they do fixed damage), don't take damage from powers that do damage on a miss, and have only one hit point.

Why one hit point? Because it means they'll always go down with one hit. No matter how badly you roll for damage. Which means the DM doesn't have to track hit points for them.

If a monster is a credible threat in its own right, then it's not built using the minion template. I've suggested before that the exact same monster might become a minion or a standard monster depending on the situation. If the Evil Overlord's dispatches an orc from his guard to snatch the toddler princess, that orc's not a minion while fighting her nanny. When the same orc and his fellow guard-orcs are charging Our Paragon-Tier Heroes, he's a minion.

 

[Mr Jack]

The point of the 1 hp rule is that they go down on a single hit and there is nothing to track.

 

[Imperialus]

On the other hand, maybe those mignons only had 1 hp?

I dunno... It looks like they can take a fair beating and still kick around for a day or so.

Maugiron and Schomberg were killed, Ribérac died of wounds the following noon, d'Arcès was wounded in the head and convalesced in a hospital for six weeks, while Caylus sustained as many 19 wounds and passed away after 33 hours of agony. Only Balzac got off with a mere scratch on his arm.

 

[jmucchiello]

I have always used 1 hit monsters and opponents in all version of D&D and HERO and traveller as a way to simplify tracking lots of opponents over the last 20+ years of gaming. I've also had 2 hit monsters. It works regardless of system and folks complaining about it in 4e are the same folks who nitpick about ferocious housecats taking out a village of peasants. Most systems breakdown at the bottom and top end of the scale.

Me, I want to see elite minions. They have 1 hit point and a power (immediate reaction). When reduced to 0 or fewer hit points and not bloodied, [critter] returns to 1 hit point and is considered bloodied for the rest of the encounter. IOW, 2 hit monsters.

 

[pawsplay]

Me, I want to see elite minions. They have 1 hit point and a power (immediate reaction). When reduced to 0 or fewer hit points and not bloodied, [critter] returns to 1 hit point and is considered bloodied for the rest of the encounter. IOW, 2 hit monsters.

Two hits from a tac nuke?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Two hits from a tac nuke?

Assuming a tact nuke
- Makes an attack at all
- Makes just one attack.

 

[Zerakon]

I'd only want a "2 hit" monster if it had a threshold above which it would die on 1 hit. Otherwise pawsplay is right in pointing out that it's silly that some awesome attack would, strictly by the rules, not kill it.