Minor Cohort Question

[gabrion]

This is a very interesting question. I think we have some bad choices to deal with though.

Why cohorts should give XP:
If we treat the Cohort as part of the character, and thus not an extra source of XP when you kill the BBEG and his minion, then it doesn't really make sense to ever have the PCs gain XP from people they fight who follow said BBEG. I mean if you start at level one fighting some of the low level minions of the 15th level evil sorcerer, all of the people you fight could be his followers. If that really means they are just a part of his power as a character and thus you are just defeating part of him (a la conjuration spells), we have some major problem.

Why cohorts shouldn't give XP:
On the other hand, when you consider the fact that they all come from a certain ability of a character (namely the leadership feat), followers and cohorts are a part of that character's power. A character who spent a feat on leadership (though I'm not sure "spent" is the right word here) gained power as part of his character progression. Also mentioned was the fact that the cohort is not a part of the group as far as XP and such goes, he really is just an extension of the character. Also, see where I edited.

Where does this leave us? Well, the second option seems more intuitive considering the rules, but if viewed this way, the concers of the first option could wreck a campaign. More importantly, this just shows us once again that the leadership feat is really broken. You will have to make a ruling on how it works, but these are just a few things to keep in mind.

Edit: This makes my evil PC wonder...if cohorts are worth XP, I could kill mine and help myself to his gear. I wonder what the leadership mod for attracting a new cohort is if you killed your last one...

 

[Diirk]

I'd agree with that to a point, but I'd say it was a guideline rather than a hard & fast rule, especially if the PCs encounter the cohort on his own without meeting the leader. After all, the BBEG might have replaced a slain cohort by the time the PCs meet him. Possibly several times.

Whether or not he's replaced it is fairly irrelevant; after all, there's really nothing stopping a BBEG wizard summoning up critters and porting them on top of you every day, and they're technically not worth any xp either

And the rules do suggest modifying XP awards for encounters of extra difficulty: I'd say say meeting a cohort is extra difficult compared with no encounter at all!

Yeah, some sort of reward is probably in order.

 

[Thanee]

Edit: This makes my evil PC wonder...if cohorts are worth XP, I could kill mine and help myself to his gear. I wonder what the leadership mod for attracting a new cohort is if you killed your last one...

Caused the death of a cohort: –2*

* Cumulative per cohort killed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Why cohorts shouldn't give XP:
On the other hand, when you consider the fact that they all come from a certain ability of a character (namely the leadership feat), followers and cohorts are a part of that character's power. A character who spent a feat on leadership (though I'm not sure "spent" is the right word here) gained power as part of his character progression.

Yes and no.

Leadership gives you the ability to attract a cohort, but the cohort itself is not really part of your ability.

It's probably best to see it that way, at least.

Also mentioned was the fact that the cohort is not a part of the group as far as XP and such goes, he really is just an extension of the character.

I think this is more of a metagame consideration in the rules, since it simply sucks, if a PC's cohort "eats up" the XP of the other party members.

In 3.0, it was still that way, but has been changed (IMHO because of that reason only).

Bye
Thanee

 

[diaglo]

if you have a minor as a cohort you should be playing d02 Modern as Michael Jackson.

 

[gabrion]

@Thanee-I was aware of the mod for "causing the death of a cohort," I was just thinking of that as having them die while in service to you. Actually killing them seems like the kind of thing that would warrent the DM ad hoc of a worse penalty to leadership. Not that it really matters though.

Yes and no.

Leadership gives you the ability to attract a cohort, but the cohort itself is not really part of your ability.

It's probably best to see it that way, at least.

Of course this makes sense, but it does leave a high CHA PC the option of killing a bunch of cohorts and taking their stuff, plus gaining XP, right? It's like you can creat your own villian, equip him with stuff he doesn't need (but that might be oddly suited for your character) and then kill him for XP and treasure. Fishy...

 

[Thanee]

Well, I don't really see where this is a problem?
You can already kill people and take their stuff. Without a feat.

And you can do all sort of silly things with the rules... doesn't mean, that anyone does that.

Oh, and don't forget the most important rule for cohorts: The DM creates the cohort, not the player! The player can ask for a certain race/class and alignment, that's about it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

@Thanee-I was aware of the mod for "causing the death of a cohort," I was just thinking of that as having them die while in service to you. Actually killing them seems like the kind of thing that would warrent the DM ad hoc of a worse penalty to leadership. Not that it really matters though.

You'd also get the -2 for a reputation of cruelty. And maybe the -1 for Aloofness.

 

[Thanee]

@Thanee-I was aware of the mod for "causing the death of a cohort," I was just thinking of that as having them die while in service to you. Actually killing them seems like the kind of thing that would warrent the DM ad hoc of a worse penalty to leadership. Not that it really matters though.

Killing seems to be a pretty direct cause of death.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

I haven't objected to that, that's why I said "also".

You get -6 if you kill a cohort in cold blood just to take its gear.
-2 for the death.
-2 for cruelty, because you inflicted said death yourself.
-1 for aloofness, because clearly you are devoid of empathy and maintain a large emotional distance.
-1 for failure because if you can only kill people to loot them if they trust you and come to you willingly, then you're obviously a failure as an adventurer.

After you kill the next cohort, that increases to -8, then -10, -12, -14, etc. Then, suddenly, by the DM's whimsical Rule-0 magic, the Leadership penalty turns into a +2800 bonus with no upper limit to the level of the cohort, which will be an epic fully-advanced half-gold-dragon solar monk / paladin / cleric / sohei / ranger / healer / rogue / scout / ninja / spellthief level 30 in each class with maxed-out stats and Vow of Poverty, and her mount/animal companion will be a Celestial Awakened Tarrasque. And you as the favored enemy (fav. enemy bonus maxed out as well). You were warned.