Mirror Image and Combat Reflexes
- Thread starter MojoGM
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
ZuulMoG said:
Isn't that like saying that if I cast Charm Person at an ogre, it fizzles since the ogre is a giant rather than a humanoid... unless I believe it's a humanoid disguised as an ogre?
Dannyalcatraz said:
Okay. Let's say MM fizzles against a figment. I cast a five-missile spread at five images... only one missile streaks out, and hits one image... which I now know is the real caster (until his next action, when he can again confound onlookers).
Is that the 'laser pointer' you're talking about?
Now let's say MM works against figments. I cast a five-missile spread at five images... five missiles streak out, and four of the images disappear, leaving only one of my targets remaining.
How is this any less of a 'laser pointer' effect?!
-Hyp.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
apesamongus said:
But that is irrelevant - the rules say nothing about restricting AoO in those circumstances so it doesn't matter according to the rules, and in narrative terms they don't all pass out of a threatened square at exactly the same instant (since they have a different position to the caster) so it doesn't make narrative nonsense either.
Cheers
RigaMortus2
First Post
Cheiromancer said:
Who cares about damage? Damage is irrelevant. You don't have to actually damage the images to make them disappear.
azhrei_fje
First Post
I believe this is wrong.RigaMortus2 said:
When attacking a creature with damage reduction or energy immunity, any attack that doesn't get through the DR or immunity is treated as not being successful. (For example, poison delivered on a successful attack is not delivered if DR is not overcome.) If a magic missile hits an inanimate object and does not damage it, it can't be considered a successful attack and the image does not disappear.SRD said:
IMO, anyway. :\
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
Yeah, what azhrei_fje said. 
Say 5 magic missiles streak out, and 4 of them hit images while the 5th hits the wizard. The 4 magic missiles fizzle out without effect, but the wizard takes damage; all 4 images thus appear to be damaged by the missile that hits them, even though their missiles actually fizzled. There is no way to tell which of the five is the real wizard.
Say all 5 missiles hit images. They all fizzle, none of the images appeared to be harmed, and there is no way to tell who is the real wizard. Even if there were only 6 targets (the wizard and the 5 images) you cannot target "the image that didn't get hit by a magic missile" because the images change and merge too quickly.
In response to the original question, I guess that whatever way you adjudicate combat reflexes and mirror image, the same reasoning should apply to magic missiles and mirror image. My opinion is that combat reflexes was adjudicated correctly in the original case, but magic missile was not.
Say 5 magic missiles streak out, and 4 of them hit images while the 5th hits the wizard. The 4 magic missiles fizzle out without effect, but the wizard takes damage; all 4 images thus appear to be damaged by the missile that hits them, even though their missiles actually fizzled. There is no way to tell which of the five is the real wizard.
Say all 5 missiles hit images. They all fizzle, none of the images appeared to be harmed, and there is no way to tell who is the real wizard. Even if there were only 6 targets (the wizard and the 5 images) you cannot target "the image that didn't get hit by a magic missile" because the images change and merge too quickly.
In response to the original question, I guess that whatever way you adjudicate combat reflexes and mirror image, the same reasoning should apply to magic missiles and mirror image. My opinion is that combat reflexes was adjudicated correctly in the original case, but magic missile was not.
RandomPrecision
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Yeah, but that's at least a 9th-level caster casting Magic Missile. At that point, I'd hope you have better defenses than Mirror Image. If it were more balanced, there'd be maybe 2 missiles. Chances are that the two images that got hit would disappear, leaving a few more candidates.
Otherwise, I have to agree with Cheiromancer on the previous post. Say there's eight images and five missiles (the maximum of each). The missiles hit different targets, and all of the adepts shout "Ow, my eye!". Four of them disappear with the impact. Now you have a wounded adept and several mirror images. Unfortunately for him, the next salvo of magic missiles is guaranteed to damage him and clear out the rest of the images too.
As we say in court- "assuming facts not in evidence, your Honor!"
Against a mage who has none of that, just the MM vs MI, a MI figment struck by a MM should be destroyed- it has been hit by the spell.
Actually, Hypersmurf- you're 100% right here. The partial fizzle is actually WORSE for the MM caster, since no images get pinged out of existence, and the MI user can continue to use the images to hide amongst.
Where its worse for the spellcaster using other illusion spells is when MM reveals all or some of the big nasties to be illusory. Instead of re-confusing the enemies by shifting images like MI, those illusions are now useless
Side question hijack- given the statement immediately above- what happens if the illusion caster covers a badass monster with a relatively innocuous illusion? If an Ogre is made to look like a Kobold, and the MM caster targets "the Kobold," does the MM hit the kobold-shrouded Ogre, or does the MM fizzle because there is no Kobold to hit...thus making the mage & cronies vulnerable to the concealed Ogre?
ThirdWizard
First Post
You can't target the magic missile at "the kobold there." You have to target at "that particular creature there" just like you can't say "the commander of the orc troops" even if there is one that is obviously the commander.
I was assuming just that one "kobold," so "that kobold there" is a specific target.
