Mirror Image + Displacement

[Quidam]

So although the target of a Blur or Displacement spell is a single creature and magic that only targets a creature should not target another spell...

Absolutely. Which is why Magic Missile doesn't work on Mirror Images in my game!
-Hyp.

If the issue is targetting, what then if the mirror image is cast after the blur?

Does the mirror image depict the target without the visual effects of any magic? What if the target is polymophed or the subject of another illusion spell? What if they're invisible? If the effect of the blur spell is of an entirely visual cause, wouldn't the effects then be transferred to the images?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does the mirror image depict the target without the visual effects of any magic? What if the target is polymophed or the subject of another illusion spell? What if they're invisible? If the effect of the blur spell is of an entirely visual cause, wouldn't the effects then be transferred to the images?

Along similar lines... what happens if the real caster is hit by a tanglefoot bag, or Iron Bands of Bilarro? Do the images now include the bag or Bands?

What if the real caster is caught by a lariat, or grappled by a halfling? Do the images all trail an illusory rope leading back to the rope-wielder, or all incorporate an illusory halfling?

With the first printing of the 3E PHB, where figments could not illuminate darkness, you could use Faerie Fire to beat Mirror Image (if the lighting conditions were right) - arguably, all the images would be outlined in the same green flames as the real caster, but only one of them would be shedding light like a candle. But with the second printing of the 3E PHB, or with the 3.5 PHB - where figments are no longer explicitly prohibited from illuminating darkness - this might not work any more.

Mirror Image is a great concept, until you actually try to use it, and suddenly realise just how incomplete the rules for how it works actually are

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If the issue is targetting, what then if the mirror image is cast after the blur?

Does the mirror image depict the target without the visual effects of any magic? What if the target is polymophed or the subject of another illusion spell? What if they're invisible? If the effect of the blur spell is of an entirely visual cause, wouldn't the effects then be transferred to the images?

Yes, the images are affected by spells that change appearance of the wizard in question. But do they gain all the advantages of every spell? No.

Do these images gain the advantage of Stoneskin? Fireshield? Shield? Mage Armor? No. So we only care about visual effects.

But an image is only an image. It does not make sense to talk about the "apparent" location of an image and the "real" location of an image. The images apparent location is always an images real location.

I also think that when you have two different effects that may stack and you get two very different answers depending on which order that is applied, you have to be very careful. Very likely they should not stack at all.

I cast Mirror Image. Then I cast Invisibility. You attack me. You defeat Concealment. Now do you roll to see if you hit an invisible image instead of an invisible me? Or do you roll to see if you hit an invisible image before rolling concealment? Neither makes much sense. The most sensible answer is to say that the invisible images do not exist at all with respect to someone who cannot see the invisible.

 

[KarinsDad]

If the issue is targetting, what then if the mirror image is cast after the blur?

The casting order should be irrelevent. Blur targets a creature, hence, it should not also target the Mirror Images of that creature. IMO.

Does the mirror image depict the target without the visual effects of any magic? What if the target is polymophed or the subject of another illusion spell? What if they're invisible? If the effect of the blur spell is of an entirely visual cause, wouldn't the effects then be transferred to the images?

I have no problem with the images gaining the visual aspects of the wizard. A polymorphed wizard should have a polymorphed looking image.

I have a problem with the images getting the game mechanic advantages of other spells. A polymorphed wizard should not have images with spell resistance or higher AC or miss chances or any other abilities that the polymorphed wizard might get while being polymorphed.

An invisible image is irrelevant according to the text of Mirror Image. If the opponent cannot see the image, the image does not affect the opponent (course, this does not talk about hearing the image which is a flaw in Mirror Image as well).

A Displaced Wizard should have invisible images because the Wizard himself is (effectively) invisible. You cannot see him, you can only see his Displaced illusion.

 

[KarinsDad]

But an image is only an image. It does not make sense to talk about the "apparent" location of an image and the "real" location of an image. The images apparent location is always an images real location.

Except in the case of Displacement and Mirror Image where the image gets displaced according to the 3.5 FAQ?

 

[KarinsDad]

I cast Mirror Image. Then I cast Invisibility. You attack me. You defeat Concealment. Now do you roll to see if you hit an invisible image instead of an invisible me? Or do you roll to see if you hit an invisible image before rolling concealment? Neither makes much sense. The most sensible answer is to say that the invisible images do not exist at all with respect to someone who cannot see the invisible.

The Mirror Image spell itself tells you what happens here.

"An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect."

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The casting order should be irrelevent. Blur targets a creature, hence, it should not also target the Mirror Images of that creature. IMO.



I have no problem with the images gaining the visual aspects of the wizard. A polymorphed wizard should have a polymorphed looking image.

I have a problem with the images getting the game mechanic advantages of other spells. A polymorphed wizard should not have images with spell resistance or higher AC or miss chances or any other abilities that the polymorphed wizard might get while being polymorphed.

An invisible image is irrelevant according to the text of Mirror Image. If the opponent cannot see the image, the image does not affect the opponent (course, this does not talk about hearing the image which is a flaw in Mirror Image as well).

A Displaced Wizard should have invisible images because the Wizard himself is (effectively) invisible. You cannot see him, you can only see his Displaced illusion.

Well, if the images aren't supposed to get the game-mechanic advantages of other spells, then the wizard should be displaced, but the images should be normal, because being invisible and having a displaced image are both part of the Displacement spell. The images shouldn't get the invisibility and not the displaced image. It's neither or both. If neither, then if the wizard casts invisibility, the images should remain visible. However, this is counter to the spell's description, which indicates that an invisible caster has invisible images. So this seems to indicate that spell effects that alter the caster's appearance have the same effect on his images. That would include displacement.

Of course, displacement is not "invisibility plus displaced image". You can't break up a spell effect that way unless it's specifically called out. Otherwise See Invisibility would see through Displacement, which it does not. Displacement makes the caster look as though he's 2 feet away from where he actually is. He's not invisible, he just looks like he's somewhere that he's not. And his images look like they're somewhere that they're not too. This is not a paradox, because the images cast by mirror image are at least partly magical constructions, not just visual effects, since you can destroy them by attacking them. The images look like they're about 2 feet away of where the caster-shaped magical effect is. True seeing would reveal not only the true location of those caster-shaped effects, but also which of the caster-shaped things is the true caster.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm with the Doc.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have a problem with the images getting the game mechanic advantages of other spells. A polymorphed wizard should not have images with spell resistance or higher AC or miss chances or any other abilities that the polymorphed wizard might get while being polymorphed.

The images could get a higher AC from Polymorph. Polymorph changes your Dex, and the images' AC includes your Dex modifier.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

The images could get a higher AC from Polymorph. Polymorph changes your Dex, and the images' AC includes your Dex modifier.

True.