MIrror Image/Illusion question

[KarinsDad]

It's just too much more powerful than blur in my opinion without a save (since it's even better against enemy spellcasters than vs melee since many spells can miss on a figment and not even "pop" it).

Blur has 3 advantages that Mirror Image does not:

1) Blur lasts an ENTIRE 1 minute per level unless dispelled (why it cannot be dismissed is beyond me though). Mirror Image will typically only last a half dozen attacks or so at low level. Mirror Image can last an entire 1 minute per level, but typically it does not.

2) Blur can be cast on other creatures like fellow party members.

3) Blur can be used with the Hide skill to Hide in Plain Sight.

And with your house rule, advantage #4:

4) The opponents of Blur do not need to make a Will save (the Will save in the spell is for the creature it is cast on).

Back to my current question on disbelief in general (study case), any thoughts on what type of action "study" should be (for illusions in general)?

Possibly the equivalent of Take 20.

The phrase is "studied carefully". You should not be able to study carefully in 6 seconds or in any round time frame. It should probably take at least a minute or two.

Interacting, on the other hand, should be possible within a single round. You put your hand through the illusionary wall, you get a real quick clue.

You just study it though (without touching or interacting with it), it should take some time to closely view the wall and discover that it is somehow different enough for the character to save against Illusion.

So, "best case," Mirror Image is as "good" as displacement, but wait! It's even better! You can get "Dominated" while displaced (as the spell), because you can still be targeted by spells, but not when Mirror Imaged (the Dominate might target a figment). There is a good percentage chance that your will not be dominated, in other words.

I do not understand why people think that a concealment bonus would not apply against targeted spells.

Sure, Magic Missile will still get you when displaced or blurred because of the textual description of Magic Missile.

But, the standard targetting description of spells does not state that it overcomes either concealment or cover.

 

[stamhaven]

I do not understand why people think that a concealment bonus would not apply against targeted spells.

Sure, Magic Missile will still get you when displaced or blurred because of the textual description of Magic Missile.

But, the standard targetting description of spells does not state that it overcomes either concealment or cover.

I think the reason people don't think concealment appies to other targeted spells is that the description of concealment specifies that it applies to sucsessful attacks. If they'd wanted it to apply to any type of targeting thing it would be worded differently. The invisibility description indicates targeting a spell in general counting as an attack is a exception used just for invisibility.

from the SRD>
Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack


I definitely lean towards Voadam's version of disbelief refrencing a search check and a full round action drawing an AoO (if you can find a secret door in 6 seconds then getting a chance to recignize an illusion in a similar fasion seems reasonible). Any other opinions?

Blurr does have those minor advantages over MI but the vast difference in miss chance (@6 images it's a sliding 86-50%) dwarfs the 20% benefit of blur both at low level and at high level. The ability to cast it on others and hide options are what make it a viable option IMO when compared to a MI with a save. Without a save for MI it's a very rare/long combat for a wizard where they'd rather have blurr over MI for themselves.

 

[KarinsDad]

Blurr does have those minor advantages over MI but the vast difference in miss chance (@6 images it's a sliding 86-50%) dwarfs the 20% benefit of blur both at low level and at high level.

I do not agree that this is always true at either high or low level. Often true, but there are many scenarios where it is not.

At low level, MI is merely a "go attack someone else" type of spell. It is more useful against a single or a few attackers than Blur.

However, in a high AC for the arcane spell caster (something the PC Wizard in my group does) against multiple attackers (4+) scenario, it doesn't help out quite as much as Blur does since although the spell casters AC is high, the AC of his images typically is not high. Hence, the attackers can take out an image on average once per two rounds. With 4 attackers, that would be 2 images per round and the protection would be gone in 3 rounds (on average). With 6 attackers, it would be gone in 2 rounds. Blur, on the other hand, would continue to protect the caster beyond those first few rounds.

At high level, MI is easily disabled (usually within 3 rounds at most of full round attacks, often 2 rounds). At high level, an opposing archer can typically take out all of the MIs in 2 rounds. Two opposing archers and the arcane caster practically wasted the spell because it could be gone in a single round. At high level without other protections available, Blur is often more useful, even early in a combat.

Each spell has its pros and cons. Blur has the main pros of being useful against many attackers and being able to cast on others. Mirror Image has the main pro of making it extremely difficult to hit an arcane spell caster with attacks for a short period of time.