Mirror Image - Need a refresher course in this...

[Particle_Man]

[Checks the SRD]

Ah, I got fooled by this part: "When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision *or hearing* to tell which one is you and which the image." And thought it would generalize, and it seems it doesn't because it is contradicted by this part: "An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible *or an attacker shuts his or her eyes*, the spell has no effect. (Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)"

Or I can just say that the second part seems rather silly to me. If the first part means that one can't use hearing to tell images apart, how on earth can one use hearing to tell which image is which when one's eyes are closed? I could imagine that blindsight would be successful here, or tremorsense, but otherwise I would simply house rule the second part away. Sorry Zatoichi, you lose!

 

[pawsplay]

That's sort of bizarre, now that you point that out. A figment would normally work fine against blindsense, but if hearing isn't affected (but can't be used to determine the real one?) that implies that the figment is visual only.

So, by the RAW, it appears I was wrong... apparently, hearing is not sufficient to sort out the correct image, but the figment is nonetheless visual only. That would make mirror image far less useful for things like dragonslaying.

 

[Dracorat]

When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision *or hearing* to tell which one is you and which the image.

An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible *or an attacker shuts his or her eyes*, the spell has no effect. (Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)

They don't contradict. It means that the images are just images. Some illusions are of that nature. But the wording of the second section was what I was referring to the spell contradicting what was said.

 

[taliesin15]

well, there's not just hearing but scent--surely animals (Badgers I believe) have a keen sense of smell--I was thinking that some characters may have a keener sense of smell than others--conversely, some characters probably smell worse than others, but as a DM, the notion of keeping up with how often the PCs bathe, go to the bathroom, wash their clothes, etc. a bit too burdensome...but anyhow, I simply raise it because it does seem that such things might be realistic among battle-hardened warriors...

but what about the 50% chance--do you roll once for that, then do a separate roll? What are the mechanics here?

 

[Dracorat]

If its a "sense" ability, the miss chance applies (blind sense, scent, tremorsense, etc). Sense abilities tell the create what square someone is in, but does not positively locate them otherwise.

If it's a "sight" ability that doesn't rely on eye-sight, then the miss chance doesn't apply (blindsight, echolocation, etc).

 

[Particle_Man]

They don't contradict.

But what does it mean to say a person can't use hearing to tell which one is the image when two of them separate? Super-ventrilogquism?

 

[Dracorat]

The images don't produce sound. But even so, one cannot try to listen for the 'real' person and use listening to determine where the real person is (since they all occupy the same space and they all shift in and out of each other).

 

[pawsplay]

It seems like a needless clause, since you already can only use Listen to determine general direction.

 

[Dracorat]

Not quite true. If you succeed your listen skill high enough, you can determine exact square.

 

[Hypersmurf]

According to the spell, the figments must each be within 5 feet of the caster or another figment.

That means that with two figments, it's possible (not necessarily likely, but possible) that the second figment could be up to ten feet from the caster. With three figments, it's possible that the third figment could be up to fifteen feet from the caster.

There's nothing in the spell that requires all the images to be in the same square. It states that they 'remain in a cluster', but as far as I can tell, it defines what 'remain in a cluster' means - all figments must be within 5 feet of the caster or another figment.

However, there's no indication that the caster has any control over where the images go; he can't, therefore, elect to string them out in a line. I tend to see the movement of the figments as Brownian - they'll mostly be in the caster's square or an adjacent square, but there's potential for figments to move further out as long as there's a chain.

This means that an opponent could be facing a line of three wizards, one to the NW, N, and NE respectively. He cannot use vision or hearing to distinguish the real wizard from the figments, so a Listen check will not tell him which direction the real wizard is.

... unless he closes his eyes. Once the opponent closes his eyes, the spell has no effect on him, and he can make a Listen check to pinpoint the square of the real wizard just as if Mirror Image had not been cast.

-Hyp.