Mirror Images CAN'T all be in different 5' squares

[Elder-Basilisk]

Why wouldn't it be an option? I have 9 identical wizards in a square formation in front of me. I have no idea which one is the real caster. I close my eyes and try to make out where the sound comes from. Even if the caster is in the back row, i can still advance on him and strike him, no?

Maybe. What happens when you're standing in the same square as an image? It's obviously not the real one since you couldn't occupy his square without grappling and you're obviously not grappling. So, if you can stand in the same square as an image when you've got your eyes closed, why not with your eyes open? And if you can stand in the same square as an image and/or move through it, what's to stop you from moving through the images until one pushes back?

Those may not be issues for your character--after all, his eyes are closed and he can't see that he's in the same square as an image. But his allies probably saw your character walk through three images on your way to the source of the sound. Are they then able to walk through those same squares? Or how about the other ones? If they trust your hearing, it would follow that all of the squares except the one you attacked were illusions....

 

[Grog]

Yup. In which case, he is 5' south of where he was last turn, and all the images extend east of his position.

No they don't, because there's no room. Let's make the room 35 feet east-west for the best example. He has six images, so there's a total of seven "wizards", each taking up a 5 foot square.

[color=white]
1.
------------
|ffffff@|
|.......|
------------
2.
------------
|.......|
|@ffffff|
------------
[/color]

After the wizard moves 5 feet to the south, he somehow warps to the other side of the room.

 

[Grog]

It doesn't imply it, it flat-out says it... and it is an option. You still need to choose the square you attack into, so it's not a good option.

That doesn't make sense. Why would they even mention that option if there were absolutely no benefit to choosing it? Given a choice between A) attacking a square that you're not sure is occupied by the wizard and B) attacking a square that you're not sure is occupied by the wizard and incuring all the penalties of being blinded, who would ever choose option B?

 

[Hypersmurf]

No they don't, because there's no room. Let's make the room 35 feet east-west for the best example. He has six images, so there's a total of seven "wizards", each taking up a 5 foot square.

Fine. The images randomly rearrange themselves in such a fashion that each is within 5' of the caster or another image. We could end up with a clump, or a line stretching out to the west again, or a line north-south with the wizard in the middle.

The wizard moves where he puts his feet.

-Hyp.

 

[Grog]

Okay, I've read the text of the spell again. I don't think it works the way I think it did.

Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images). These figments separate from the character and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character. The character can move into and through a mirror image. When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic the character's actions.

Enemies attempting to attack the character or cast spells at the character must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it. A figment’s AC is 10 + size modifier + Dexterity modifier. Figments seem to react normally to area spells.

While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded.

This seems to say that only the images the caster moves through will continue to confuse observers.

So in the following situation: (abcdef are all images, W is the wizard)

[color=white]
---------------------
|abcdefW|
|.......|

The wizard then moves 5' south and 15' west

|.......|
|abcWdef|
[/color]

So in that example, in the second round, anyone who watched the wizard move would still be confused by images d, e, and f. They would still know that images a, b, and c were not really the wizard (assuming they knew that beforehand, of course).

Okay, this makes a bit more sense. But it still doesn't explain why the spell has no effect on someone who shuts their eyes. If you still have to pick a square to attack, shutting your eyes wouldn't help at all.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This seems to say that only the images the caster moves through will continue to confuse observers.

Remember, though, the images also move through each other.

If the wizard moves through images A and B, and then image A moves through image C, and image B moves through image D, the observer can't tell the difference between any of the five.

If the wizard is identified somehow (someone shoots him, for example), then until he moves, anyone who saw him get hit knows which one he is. But as soon as he moves, all the images shuffle through him and each other and confuse everybody again.

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

Well, it says that the attacker must pick between the indistinguishable images, which basically means the attacker has to pick one. Any one. That one!

Then he attacks it, and depending on which one he picked, it will either be the correct one, or it will be the wrong one. The spell text does not specify any ruling for how correctness or wrongness is determined. The easiest approach would be the "pick a number" approach.

Closing your eyes and striking blindly obviously works, because this is an optical confusion effect. Without the vision to confuse you, you can strike blindly and hit something. It's kind of like pin the tail on the donkey.

Close your eyes and fight me. Use the Force.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Then he attacks it, and depending on which one he picked, it will either be the correct one, or it will be the wrong one. The spell text does not specify any ruling for how correctness or wrongness is determined. The easiest approach would be the "pick a number" approach.

Actually, I think that's the problem. The way it is described, randomly is precisely NOT the way that one should determine whether the image struck was real or a figment unless they're all in the same square. If the rogue threatens image a in the previous example, unless he has more than 5' reach, he doesn't threaten the wizard. He should therefore have no chance of hitting the wizard--not a one in seven chance.

This is more significant because the images dissappear when struck and the exact location of the wizard is, in fact, important for all sorts of things including AoOs and area effects. If one were to randomly roll when the rogue attacked square A, the rogue would have a 1 in 7 chance of hitting the wizard. If the rogue rolled well and hit the wizard, in square A, the wizard would have ended up moving thirty feet and on his initiative rather than 20. If he's a halfling then, he couldn't have cast a spell last round because he double moved. Etc. Etc.

Randomly determining whether an image struck was real or a figment seems to present the inevitable possibility of the wizard randomly teleporting around the battlefield unless all images are in the same square.

 

[bret]

The wizard that puts the images all single files is in trouble anyways.

Say they are all single file, @ being the wizard and abcdef being the images:

ab@cdef
Someone comes up and hits image 'e'. Now image 'f' is no longer with 5' of another image.

I think you're in a situation similiar to a spell going past it's range. Image f should disappear since it is no longer within 5' of the caster or another image.

The caster wants some redundency in the line, so that taking out a single image doesn't destroy the connectivity.

 

[Grog]

Randomly determining whether an image struck was real or a figment seems to present the inevitable possibility of the wizard randomly teleporting around the battlefield unless all images are in the same square.

Right, so you can't use random chance to determine whether it's the wizard that gets hit, or an image (unless you rule that they're all in the same square). This part makes sense to me now, but I still don't understand why closing your eyes would make you immune to the spell if you'd still have to pick a square to attack.