Misconceptions about 3.5...Answers

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I'm confused by this post...have you read or tried out any of the rules I'm listing, since you seem to already know what their effect on your game will be and how they could be exploited... do you have any experience with them to back any of this up?

M1) I have tried retraining rules. I have a couple of LGers in my group that have been conditioned by the modules in our region to make uber characters or die horribly at the hands of uber-templated advanced monstrosities. They milk every benefit they can from being able to retrain to get an edge. Its common practice in LG to switch alignments willy-nilly to meet requirements, so similarly they rules-lawyer their way into meeting a prerequisite for a PrC and then retrain to get a better feat when they no longer need to gain levels in said PrC.

M2) Never saw this as a problem, so I never sought a solution. So I had not read the complex skill check section. Plus I was joking about exploiting this one.

M3) Again, not a problem, so we just used skill points. Plus I was joking about exploiting this one.

M4) I did try spending less time making NPCs and read the guidelines. But player entitlement led to unsatisfying play for the players if I could not justify how a villain got his cool powers. Players who aren't happy with your game aren't going to remain players for long. Should I have stopped running for these guys? 1) They are my only dependable players, having time for rules mastery also means they show up every week; 2) I thought I'd give it a try and stuck with DMing 3E past the rules bloat/mastery point for quite a while; 3) I was about to annouce that I no longer wanted to DM for my group after 24 years at the helm (a hard decision to come to after such a long run) when 4E was announced, I decided to keep my 3E game going until 4E came out for the sole pupose of keeping my group together.

M5) I found the recharge mechanic to be an unsatisfactory fix to the problem. Issues others have brought up such as the 24/7 Bull Strength come to mind as an easily obtainable exploit.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Well here's a suggestion as far as rules mastery... have your less rules savvy PC's make up their characters and progress them along the lines given in the PHB2 appendix "Quick PC and NPC Creation". It shows how to build different classes into a certain role (like blaster for a Wizard or Defender for fighter.) with specific skill, feat, and even best race choices already spelled out. Won't necessarily be optimized, but a casual character won't have to worry about being sub-optimal in their function.

The gap that the rules masters in my group could create between baseline-power PCs (which is what the suggestions in that section create) and their uber-PCs was too large for me to devote the time to make challeging encounters for the entire party. Remember, by definition, I am a "casual DM" at this point in my life because of the other priorities in my life. Even so, the rules masters enjoy my style as DM enough to play 4E with me (even though they prefer the fun of rules mastery in 3E more). And noone else wants to step up within our group to run an ongoing campaign. I would even be willing to play in a 3E campaign if they were to run one.

Edit: Also, those without rules mastery in my group have no problem creating competent characters. Not having the time and resources for rules mastery doesn't make any of us "rules stupid."

 

[WizarDru]

You do realize UA is in the SRD? And the Duskblade rules aren't right?

I'm not really sure what the Duskblade has to do with what I said. Are you sure you were replying to me, and not the person who actually mentioned the Duskblade? UA being in the SRD isn't really legerdemain to my point, either. I'm not arguing anything about the rules, but about your nomenclature of 'misconception'.

A great deal of material from UA is at direct odds with the core rules. Being freely available (since a good chunk of UA is actually recycled material from other publishers released under the OGL to WotC's benefit) doesn't make it a part of the core rules. A new class from a later supplement does not invalidate a new module...but switching to Green Ronin's damage model might.

Unless one expects every DM and player everywhere to have every supplement and constant access to the SRD, I can't see how seeing some of these issues as a problem is a 'misconception'. There are solutions, some more elegant than others, to address issues that some found in the system (such as Reserve Feats, retraining, M&M's combat system and so forth) because 3e/3.5e enjoyed a great deal of support from both within and without WotC.

You're talking capacity and I'm discussing sophistry.

 

[Scribble]

A lot of th fixes introduced throughout the game were/are great. And if they work for the user, also great. I used a number of those in some of my games.

The only issue is that other material built for the game wasn't built with the assumption that these patches were in place. Which required extra tinkering on my part.

 

[Eridanis]

Please keep the tone civil, or this thread will be closed.

 

[carmachu]

Is it fair to call them misconceptions when all your fixes seem to have been tacked on in additional books outside the core rules? I reckon if you create enough splatbook subsystems and optional rules you can accomadate just about anything with any system.

So....then they throw everything out, void everything and start a new game and thats ok?

 

[Lacyon]

So....then they throw everything out, void everything and start a new game and thats ok?

As long as they don't send ninjas out to my house to steal my old game, yes.

 

[Scribble]

As long as they don't send ninjas out to my house to steal my old game, yes.

Dude they so already did.

You just think you still have your old stuff cuz you know- ninja magicks.

 

[Lacyon]

Dude they so already did.

You just think you still have your old stuff cuz you know- ninja magicks.

Which is hilarious because I've been playing out of the magickal illusions they left behind.

Man, those ninjas never think things through, do they?

Stupid ninjas.

 

[Scribble]

Which is hilarious because I've been playing out of the magickal illusions they left behind.

Man, those ninjas never think things through, do they?

Stupid ninjas.

Why do you think Pirates have already dominated popular culture with a huge movie trilogy?

Pirates- even better business men.