Misdirection/Nondetect vs See Invis

[Methos of Aundair]

I’m confused on your alls opinions. See invisibility is a divination spell and nondetection states it protects against divination spells, so why wouldn’t it work? The description of nondetection explicitly states it requires a caster level check to get passed it. Are you saying this statement doesn’t necessarily affect see invisibility? I’m just curious as to how you all are coming up with this exactly, or if you have just dismissed this statement. I believe I may be misunderstanding everyone.

Misdirection is an illusion (glamer) and see invisibility states it doesn’t allow you to see through illusions, so IMO it is obvious misdirection wouldn’t work at all versus see invisibility.

IMO, the “such as” statement in the nondetection is merely giving examples, not specifically stating the only spells it affects.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

I’m confused on your alls opinions. See invisibility is a divination spell and nondetection states it protects against divination spells, so why wouldn’t it work? The description of nondetection explicitly states it requires a caster level check to get passed it. Are you saying this statement doesn’t necessarily affect see invisibility? I’m just curious as to how you all are coming up with this exactly, or if you have just dismissed this statement. I believe I may be misunderstanding everyone.
.....
IMO, the “such as” statement in the nondetection is merely giving examples, not specifically stating the only spells it affects.

"Nondetection" lists a number of spells and others "such as". It lists the detct line of spells, "clairvoyance" and "locate object" specificially, all of them being active magical detection spells, which are trying to probe for normally imperceptible (be it due to L.o.S. , type (purely mental) or condition (alignment or poison ) ) things or facts.
"See Invisible" merely negates the effects of two possible conditions with regard to the recipient, these being "Invisibility" and "Ethereality", same as "Darkvision" does for Lightlessness and "Blindsight" does for lack of sight, say by fog, smoke or similar obstructions. It does not affect the target warded by "non-detection", but the observer (recipient - it is a "personal" spell). Hence it is unaffected by the level check of "non-detection", because it never uses magic on or to perceive the warded target in the first place.
It is also not listed specificially by "non-detection", hence not forced to take a level check by WotC's design.


As for the "such as" list giving examples - you are partially right there, these are examples of what type of spells are affected - "clairvoyance" as an example of divination (scrying) spells, the general line of "detect" spells and "locate object" as an example of objetc, not person-targeting divination spells, which might be used to circumvent the protection by looking for BBEG's sword instead of the BBEG warded by non-detection himself otherwise.
Take note that none of the personal, sight (or other sense) affecting divinations are listed such as "Blindsight", "True Sight" etc.

 

[Methos of Aundair]

Example: A pc is sneaking around invisibly in an area where he/she believes the guards may have the ability to use see invisibility, so the pc decides to cast nondetection on him/her for added protection. IMO I don’t see a problem with using it this way, the guard or whomever, has to make a caster level check to bypass the caster level. If the guard fails, the pc isn’t seen, if the guard makes the check, well, the pc has more problems.

One thing I might add is I am unsure if people realize that when I am saying that see invisibility and nondetection affect each other I am assuming the target is also under the spell invisibility. I have not been clear on that earlier so I showed an example of what I mean. If the target of the see invisibility had only a nondetection spell up than no, the see invisibility wouldn’t work, I don’t believe see invisibility has the ability to bypass nondetection by itself. I was assuming the spell invisibility was also up. My apologies if I have assumed wrong or for any confusion I may have caused, I hope this clarifies my opinion and postings.

 

[Will]

I understood the sense you meant. I still maintain, as I said up above, that Nondetection doesn't apply to spells like see invisibility (or darkvision, or whatever).