miss chance and natural 20's

[Kuld]

Is a miss chance rolled before every attack or just under certain circumstances?

I’ve never used it. I’m new to 3-3.5E It’s taking us 2E guys a while to adjust

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is a miss chance rolled before every attack or just under certain circumstances?

Well, it's rolled for every attack made under certain circumstances.

A "miss chance" isn't just the chance that, when you attack normally, you won't hit. For instance, let's say you need to roll a 14 or better to hit your opponent. This doesn't constitute a miss chance.

A "miss chance" results when there's a good chance you're not even attack the right location. For instance, you could be blind, your opponent could be under the effects of a Blur or Displacement spell, or your target could be behind a screen of leaves that make him hard to see.

In these cases, it doesn't matter how accurately you fire your bow, or how hard you swing your sword - you're hitting the wrong target (or no target at all!).

 

[MichaelH]

Is a miss chance rolled before every attack or just under certain circumstances?

It's a game mechanic used under certain circumstances, like concealment or invisibility.

Anytime someone has concealment against an attacker (in the area of a Darkness spell or in fog, for example), the attacker always suffers a 20% miss chance for each attack. This simulates the added degree of difficulty to successfully attack someone in this circumstance.

Invisibility provides total concealment. This means that an invisible target has a 50% miss chance against attacks made against him, if they pick the right spot.

Look up "miss chance," "concealment," and "invisibility" in the PH index and glossary for more information.

 

[Kuld]

Oh yes. Makes perfect sense. Thanks

 

[Rystil Arden]

Miss chance trumps a natural 20, for reasons stated above. Imagine that an effect gave my attackers a 100% miss chance, and someone who didn't know that attacked me and rolled a 20. He still misses, because there's a 100% miss chance. The miss chance sometimes represents attacking the wrong place, as in invisiblity as mentioned above, and it sometimes means that the defender wasn't there to be hit at that moment (a la Blink). That said, I like to roll the attack roll first or at that same time, for reasons mentioned by shilsen. Then again, when players threaten a critical hit against a construct or undead and begins to roll the confirm, I don't stop them until afterwards for the same reason ^^ As far as natural 20s go, I've personally never liked the natural 20 always succeeds and natural 1 always fails rule, so I use the variant rule in the DMG wherein a 20 means roll again and add both rolls to your bonus (and keep rolling again and again if you keep getting 20). This helps deal with the fact that Sheri the peasant girl who has never battled in her life (attack roll total -2) can hit Baxtrius, Lord of Battles (AC 52) 5% of the time, even if he has 90% cover, etc. It also means that the bad guy can't hire 30 weak apprentices and expect the high-level heroes to fail on their strong save against at least 1. Overall, this variant favours the PCs because it means that hordes of worthless weenies might not threaten them any more.

 

[RigaMortus]

I think that you should either roll the d20 first (before the miss chance) or if you do roll the miss chance first (and miss) you should still roll the d20. Reason being, you might hit something else.

Imagine an enemy and an ally engaged in melee combat in total darkness. The sly ranger fires an arrow into the darkness hoping to hit the enemy. If his ally is giving any kind of cover to the enemy, it is entirely possible that you miss the enemy and hit the ally.

This may be an extreme situation that doesn't come up most of the time, but there are other instances such as objects one might accidentally hit if they blindly swing in darkness (missing their opponent but maybe hitting a switch on the wall).

 

[saucercrab]

Miss chance trumps a 20.

Always roll the miss chance after the attack roll, so that you can take the player's joy at the success and crush it pitilessly into smithereens. It's one of the many perks of DMing

ROTFLMAO
I like that, & shall use it in that order, RAW or not.

And it works both ways. 'll be real funny when my DM's BBEG totally misses my elocater (assuming I can roll that miss chance).

 

[shilsen]

Page 22, RBDMG.

ROTFLMAO
I like that, & shall use it in that order, RAW or not.

And it works both ways. 'll be real funny when my DM's BBEG totally misses my elocater (assuming I can roll that miss chance).

Glad to help Even though I am a RBDM, I'm a big one for turnabout being fair play, so I often let players roll the miss chance when one of my bad guys has a chance to be affected (esp. if it's a climactic moment). It makes them really excited when it goes in their favor. Since I roll all my dice in the open, it's not like they don't see it happen anyway, but they have this strange belief that them rolling is more effective. Ah, players and their wacky dice superstitions!