Mithral and Armor Proficiency...

[Cergorach]

Your right, I forgot to mention the fact it's MW. My bad. So, it'd me a MW mithral breast plate that has no armor check penalty.

A "MW mithral breast plate" does not exist, the enhancements of Mithral replace the enhancements of Masterwork...

 

[Crothian]

A "MW mithral breast plate" does not exist, the enhancements of Mithral replace the enhancements of Masterwork...

Where's that written?

 

[kreynolds]

A "MW mithral breast plate" does not exist

Maybe not in your games, but....

the enhancements of Mithral replace the enhancements of Masterwork...

Since when? Mithral is treated as masterwork armor in regards to creation times, but this quality does not affect anything else. This does not mean that you can't make masterwork mithril armor.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Ysgarran]

A "MW mithral breast plate" does not exist, the enhancements of Mithral replace the enhancements of Masterwork...

I don't have the books in front of me but this is not exactly correct. Adding MW to a Mithral Breastplate does not increase the enhancements but does allow it to be enchanted.

To rephrase:
The only inherent advantage that a MW Mithral breastplate has over a Mithral Breastplate is that it can be enchanted. Plain Old Mihtral armor cannot be enchanted.

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[Cergorach]

Since when? Mithral is treated as masterwork armor in regards to creation times, but this quality does not affect anything else. This does not mean that you can't make masterwork mithril armor.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Of course you are... ;-)

From the DMG page 243:
Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor.

 

[Alejandro]

Actually, I'm not sure that kreynolds is wrong.

There are no descriptions of magical adamantine or mithral items in the Core Rules, so we cannot determine how much such things should cost or what their effects are.

Does anyone have Magic of Faerun handy? Are there magical adamantine or mithral items in there? Do they tack on an extra 300 gp (for weapons) or 150 gp (for armors) for base cost?

 

[0-hr]

That passage from the DMG is so poorly written as to be laughable. Either interpretation is equally plausible from that mess so let's just skip the whole argument and let everyone do it they way they think best eh?

 

[Roland Delacroix]

quote:
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From the DMG page 243:
Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor.

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As written, this in no way precludes an armorer from adding the masterwork component to Mithril armor. The quote above states that working with Mithril takes longer and keeps the rules light by using an existing rule, the masterwork-creation-times rule. Making an armor Masterwork and Mithril would merely increase the creation time even more.

Of course, many DM's interpret it as 'you can't make mithril armor masterwork'. Whatever, its your game. Feel free to use whatever house rules you like.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

That passage from the DMG is so poorly written as to be laughable. Either interpretation is equally plausible from that mess so let's just skip the whole argument and let everyone do it they way they think best eh?

Heh, I posted at the same time as Ki Ryn. Ignore the above post and lets just say I agree with Ki Ryn

 

[Rill]

Our group has been of the mind that special materials can only be of masterwork quality. I can certainly see that the DMG passage can be read to mean something else, so with lack of clarity there, I have used the section on special materials from Magic of Faerun page 177.

"Any item fashioned from one of the materials listed here is treated as a masterwork item, except that the extra cost is as listed for the material. The masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor. The market price modifier always refers to the weight of a normal (steel) object, not the object's weight in the unusual material."

Since MaoF isn't core, this obviously doesn't end the debate for those wanting to add masterwork qualities on top of the special material qualities. I simply wanted to provide another source from which interested parties could draw upon when making the decision for their game.

-Rill