Mithral and Armor Proficiency...

[Cergorach]

From the DnDFAQv07122002.pdf page 71:
The dastana and chahar-aina each have an armor check
penalty of 1. What armor check penalties do masterwork
versions of these items have? What armor check penalty
would mithral versions of these items have?
The armor check penalty for any item of masterwork armor
is reduced by 1. (See page 113 in the Player™s Handbook.) A
masterwork dastana or chahar-aina has an armor check penalty
of 0.
Mithral reduces armor check penalties by 3. (See page 243 in
the DUNGEON MASTER™s Guide.) The minimum armor check
penalty is 0. The reduction for mithral and for masterwork
stacks.

My bad, it seems that the bonuses do stack...

 

[Wolf72]

No stacking! (imo)

I hated that passage! ... totally turned over previous rulings! (iirc) ...

my solution was this:

[houserules]
MasterWork quality and enhancement bonuses. [House rule]
Items made from special materials are always considered MW for purposes of enhancement. They do not always gain the MW enhancements though. If an item has an enhancement bonus to attk (weapons) or Armor Check Penalty/ACP then that item does not gain a MW bonus [the two Do Not stack]. If the item does not have the aforementioned bonuses then it does gain the MW enhancement. If a special material has a negative modifier (jade/obsidian) the MW component does stack (so that –2 attk becomes a –1). Some items in the DMG do not have the 150/300gp price added in (mithral), so be sure to add that in as well.
[/houserules]

[edit: oh yeah, as to having it count as light/med armor, my first reaction was that you still need the app med/heavy feat ... still waffling on that though]

 

[kreynolds]

Re: No stacking! (imo)

I hated that passage!

That's ok. Most people hate what proves them wrong.

totally turned over previous rulings! (iirc) ...

Then you probably don't remember correctly. Personally, myself and my group have never seen a ruling that suggested the bonuses didn't stack.

 

[Wolf72]

Re: Re: No stacking! (imo)

That's ok. Most people hate what proves them wrong.



Then you probably don't remember correctly. Personally, myself and my group have never seen a ruling that suggested the bonuses didn't stack.

if not a passage, then we had a grand ol' debate here on EN world and Monte's boards ...


and poop on you ~SKR!! ... that debate went on a long time, then I eventually just said "forget it" and did my own thing ...

and to that person who brought up the 4e thing with WotC people and they said something about 2009 ... *wolf uses improved trip then goes for the throat!* ... (might be a knee-jerk reaction ...)

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My plain reading of "the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor" says they don't stack.

It is a poorly worded sentence with this phrase tacked on in an ackward manner, so I think there is fair room for disagreement.

 

[kreynolds]

My plain reading of "the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor" says they don't stack.

My plain reading tells me both. I hate it when that happens.

It is a poorly worded sentence with this phrase tacked on in an ackward manner

You ain't just whistlin' dixie!

so I think there is fair room for disagreement.

Nah. There's room for disagreement and house ruling, but it sure ain't fair. The FAQ is pretty clear, and like I said, I have yet to see any of these fabled sage replies that state otherwise. Anybody have one?

 

[Cergorach]

Ok, it's pretty clear that the latest rulings support the fact that MW and Mithral stack.

So i'll start mass producing Masterwork Mithral Breast Plates for my 1st level Rogue troops ASAP using the Fabricate spell. I wonder of i could bother those nice bearded fellows over at Mithril Hall for a couple of hundred pounds worth of Mithral...

Back to the original question though, does using Mithral Armar also make armor a catagory lighter for Armor Proficiency?

 

[Wolf72]

oh god, ~SKR has gotten into the chocolate again! ...

[edited: strike ----------- strike-------- strike ------------- strike --------]

okay changed mind (wonders that food does for ya!) ... Mithral plate is treated as a medium armor for feats too! ... so if your barbarian has a light/medium feats ... s/he can wear mithral plate con no problema.

 

[trentonjoe]

Back to the original question though, does using Mithral Armar also make armor a catagory lighter for Armor Proficiency?

I vote no.


WOlf- Didn't me, you, and drow dude come up with a compromise on this months ago? It had to do with weapons though. I'd search the forums but I wouldn't no where to start!

 

[Wolf72]

I vote no.


WOlf- Didn't me, you, and drow dude come up with a compromise on this months ago? It had to do with weapons though. I'd search the forums but I wouldn't no where to start!

very very possible NJ-Joe ... if that's the case then change my vote to 'no'

*wolf is currently suffering from not eating very much today, feel free to question is memory and accuracy*

weapons: I think someone wanted to make them one category lighter ... so a medium weapon was basically a small weapon and therefore finessable by medium characters ... I'm pretty sure we shot that idea down. The second part is that they do weigh 1/2 of the standard wieght (which is good for low str characters ... it's funny when the DM enforces encumbrance rules and someone has a 9 str )