Mithral and Armor Proficiency...

[Wolf72]

"Fly Casual!"

okay just JH's quotes from the SRD ... and to me it looked like the items created were MW but did not gain any MW benefits as they were superceded by the special material ...

<snip>but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor<snip>

it seems to me that it is also saying the item created is MW ...

I think the only thing I agree on is that it's a really ambiguous passage, and that house rules solve things

[oh right, I'm gonna flip-flop on my needig the proper feat for armor, if it acts like medium armor it gets used like medium armor ... for NJ-Joe]

and seal the argument I have it on good authority that it's pronounced toh -MAH- toh

[gross! did you know that seel means: To stitch closed the eyes of (a falcon). ???]

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Funny. I was thinking the exact same thing, but I think they should stack. So if my choice is "less stupid", what does that make yours? I think that was a bad way to phrase how to choose.

More stupid? Wouldn't be the first time!

If both choices make both of us look stupid, we should be able to agree to blame the whole mess on the designer who wrotes those rules. That is especially attractive because he is not here to defend himself.

 

[trentonjoe]

Perhaps raise the DC for masterwork mithral if the material is difficult to handle, so masterwork mithral is more expensive and difficult to purchase.

YESSSS! This is the compromise we made last time! NOw I remember it. YOu could do it but it was awfully darn hard!


Now I think these were the numbers:

TO craft a regular MW item: 20
TO craft a regular "exotic material" item: 25
TO craft a MW "exotic material item": 30


Failed checks mean you have to start over form the begining timewise. Creation time was one day per 100gp in value of the finished items. One check should be made per week.

 

[kreynolds]

If both choices make both of us look stupid, we should be able to agree to blame the whole mess on the designer who wrotes those rules. That is especially attractive because he is not here to defend himself.

LMAO

 

[Wolf72]

Mira!

Now I think these were the numbers:

TO craft a regular MW item: 20
TO craft a regular "exotic material" item: 25
TO craft a MW "exotic material item": 30


Failed checks mean you have to start over form the begining timewise. Creation time was one day per 100gp in value of the finished items. One check should be made per week.

[bad Spanish]yo no recuerdo este el![/bad Spanish]

but I think I might being doing some cuttin' and pastin' ...

 

[trentonjoe]

Re: Mira!

[bad Spanish]yo no recuerdo este el![/bad Spanish]

I do not remember this, he?

What's the el for?

or is that "dude"?

Mi espanol es no fuerte.

 

[Wolf72]

Re: Re: Mira!

I do not remember this, he?

What's the el for?

or is that "dude"?

Mi espanol es no fuerte.

or generic 'it' with a male pronoun ... I think hombre would be a man/guy/dude

okay, I have to take a language class for certifacation ... it's either japanese lang/culture or spanish 1 ... right now I'm thinking spanish1!

 

[Jack Haggerty]

A reasonable argument.

But you have skirted around the question of how does one make MW mithral armor. Does it take exactly as long as making non-MW mithral armor? That would obviously be strupid.

Not as stupid as you might think...

Let's make a MW mithral chain shirt. But first, allow me a few more quotes from the SRD...

SRD (Craft skill):

To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item:

1. Find the DC listed here or have the DM set one.

2. Pay one-third the item's price in raw materials.

3. Make a skill check representing one week's work.

If the check succeeds, multiply the check result by the DC. If the result times the DC equals the price of the item multiplied by 10, then the character has completed the item. (If the result times the DC equals double or triple the price of the item (multiplied by 10), then the character has completed the task in one-half or one-third the time, and so on.) If the result times the DC doesn't equal the price multiplied by 10, then it represents progress the character has made this week. Record the result and make a check for the next week. Each week the character makes more progress until the character's total reaches the price of the item multiplied by 10.

SRD (Craft skill):

Creating Masterwork Items: The character can make a masterwork item (an item that conveys a bonus to its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical).

To create a masterwork version of an item on the table below, the character creates the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item.

The masterwork component has its own price and DC. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. (Note: The price the character pays for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the price in raw materials.)

So, to make a MW item, we make the item and the masterwork component seperately. Let's make the mithral chain shirt first...

A mithral chain shirt costs 100 gp for being a chain shirt, and an extra 1000 gp for being light armor made from mithral. The total base price is 1100 gp. The smith must spend 1/3 that price (366.66 gp) in materials to make the armor.

The DC for the Craft check doesn't change... For armor, DC=10+AC bonus... DC 14 for a chain shirt.

Once you've successfully made the item, you roll the Craft check for MW...

Ok. Here comes the tricky part... With Craft checks, you multiply your check result by the DC (20*14=280, for example). Add total up week by week, and when it equals the item's price multiplied by 10, the item has been completed.

So, when you make an ordinary chain shirt, you spend ~33 gp in materials, and you must reach 1000 with your checks before completing it.

For a mithral chain shirt, you spend ~366 gp in materials. But for construction time, you consider it a MW item... 1100 gp + 150 gp = 1250 (effective construction cost). So, instead of having to reach 11000 before it's complete, you have to reach 12500, even though the base price stays the same.

For a MW mithral chain shirt, add 150 to the <B><I>base</I></B> price (1250)... ~416 gp spent on materials, and you must reach 14000 before it's complete.

So, for a character with a total +10 to his Craft (armorsmith), and who is taking 10 on his checks...

Chain shirt: 3.5 weeks (one month) construction time... 1000/280
MW chain shirt: About 14-15 weeks (4 months) construction time... 4000/280
Mithral chain shirt: About 44-45 weeks (11 months) construction time... 1250/280
MW Mithral chain shirt: 50 weeks (a year) construction time... 1400/280

All in all, for this particular smith, the "treat as MW for construction price", simply adds about a month to the construction time.

So, when you think about it, there's little need to worry about the construction time of Adamantine and Mithral items. What character is going to take months off of adventuring to make one stinking suit of armor, when he can just steal one off the corpse of some hapless elf?

 

[kreynolds]

So, when you think about it, there's little need to worry about the construction time of Adamantine and Mithral items. What character is going to take months off of adventuring to make one stinking suit of armor, when he can just steal one off the corpse of some hapless elf?

Besides, who's to say that armorsmith doesn't have a spiffy +30 Ring of Craft (armorsmith)? That wouldn't take quite as long.

 

[Caliban]

So, for a character with a total +10 to his Craft (armorsmith), and who is taking 10 on his checks...

Chain shirt: 3.5 weeks (one month) construction time... 1000/280
MW chain shirt: About 14-15 weeks (4 months) construction time... 4000/280
Mithral chain shirt: About 44-45 weeks (11 months) construction time... 1250/280
MW Mithral chain shirt: 50 weeks (a year) construction time... 1400/280

All in all, for this particular smith, the "treat as MW for construction price", simply adds about a month to the construction time.

So, when you think about it, there's little need to worry about the construction time of Adamantine and Mithral items. What character is going to take months off of adventuring to make one stinking suit of armor, when he can just steal one off the corpse of some hapless elf?

I think that the "Treat as masterwork for construction times" simply means that you calculate the extra construction time for using a special material based on the cost of a masterwork item, instead of the actual cost of the material. If you actually want to make the item masterwork as well, you spend time and money for that seperately.

So it's 3.5 weeks for creating the base chain shirt, plus twice the time it would take to make a masterwork chain shirt.