Mithril and Masterwork

[Sejs]

Question: I'm looking to design a suit of mithril armor for the campaign currently ongoing. Now, the DMG (pg 243) says that mithril armor/weapons are 'treated as masterwork items with regards to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect enhancement bonus of weapons, or armor check penalties of armor'. My question is, if you pay the masterwork item fee (+150gp for armor), and another iteration of the masterwork creation time (it'll take a long time to finish and a master craftsman), could you have Masterwork Mithril armor; ie ~ one less point of Armor Check Penality, and can be enchanted. Would the Masterwork bonus, and the Mithril bonuses stack with one another.


Basically is there normal mithril armor, and then really nicely made mithril armor?

Opinions, comments, etc please.

^_^

 

[Pax]

Question: I'm looking to design a suit of mithril armor for the campaign currently ongoing. Now, the DMG (pg 243) says that mithril armor/weapons are 'treated as masterwork items with regards to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect enhancement bonus of weapons, or armor check penalties of armor'. My question is, if you pay the masterwork item fee (+150gp for armor), and another iteration of the masterwork creation time (it'll take a long time to finish and a master craftsman), could you have Masterwork Mithril armor; ie ~ one less point of Armor Check Penality, and can be enchanted. Would the Masterwork bonus, and the Mithril bonuses stack with one another.


Basically is there normal mithril armor, and then really nicely made mithril armor?

Opinions, comments, etc please.

^_^

Technically ... no. The Mithril bonuses *replace* the normal Masterwork bonusses, just as the costs of mithril construction replace the costs of masterwork construction. Since Mithril counts as masterwork, it CAN be enchanted ... as-is, without further masterwork-ing. A Mithril Shirt (1100gp, and essentially a Chain Shirt made of Mithril) enchanted as a +1 Ghost Touch Mithril Shirt (+4 market value) costs 17,100gp, has all the properties of a nomagical Mithril Shirt, AND a +1 enhancement ot it's armor, AND the benefits fo the Ghost Touch armor enhancement. All at once.

However, in the end ... it's really a DM call as to wether or not you can stack Masterwork and Material benefits.

IMC, mind, I'd allow it, but I might charge more than 150gp (I'm trying to figure out a better way to calculate increased cost for MW items; a MW dagger costing 150gp + base cost just seems ... wrong ... IMO; MW-ing a dagger should not be as intensive or as expensive a process as MW-ing a Mercurial Greatsword ...). I'm thinking of doubling or trebling the base item cost, and IMC, materials cost will be considered part of the base cost -- so a MW suit of Mithril would be VERY expensive ... but if you wanna stack bennies, go for it, pay up and stack away.

 

[trentonjoe]

THere has been about a trzillion discussions on this. THese are my ideas:

Originally posted by Sarellion
Perhaps raise the DC for masterwork mithral if the material is difficult to handle, so masterwork mithral is more expensive and difficult to purchase.
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YESSSS! This is the compromise we made last time! NOw I remember it. YOu could do it but it was awfully darn hard!


Now I think these were the numbers:

TO craft a regular MW item: 20
TO craft a regular "exotic material" item: 25
TO craft a MW "exotic material item": 30


Failed checks mean you have to start over form the begining timewise. Creation time was one day per 100gp in value of the finished items. One check should be made per week.

 

[trentonjoe]

and here is a link to a rather long discussion by some of the real masterminds of these boards:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20542&highlight=mithral

 

[Immort]

Just get heroes of high favor, the dwarf book. This will allow ya ta customize er armour any way ya sees ft wihout avin' ta wory about what sacsand what don't.

-Immort

 

[Taluron]

According to the DND FAQ p.71, OA section, right-hand column, first full question in column about dastana, the bonuses for mithral and masterwork stack. It is stated quite plainly but not in a place you'd look for it.

 

[kreynolds]

According to the DND FAQ p.71, OA section, right-hand column, first full question in column about dastana, the bonuses for mithral and masterwork stack.

Good. Glad they finally put it in there.

 

[Anubis]

This is not a DM call. This is stated very clearly in the DMG.

YOU CAN'T MAKE A MASTERWORK VERSION OF ITEMS MADE OF SPECIAL MATERIALS.

So you are all wrong.

Mithral, Adamantine, and other such weapons are already considered MW by default, and therefore can't be made into MW. This is in the DMG.

The statement in the OA section of the FAQ completely and utterly contradicts EVERY SINGLE RULING made thus far, which means one of two things: 1) that is a special property of those specific weapons; or 2) they don't know what the heck they're talking about.

The DMG clearly states that Mithral and other such items are already considered MW.

 

[kreynolds]

This is stated very clearly in the DMG.

YOU CAN'T MAKE A MASTERWORK VERSION OF ITEMS MADE OF SPECIAL MATERIALS.

Give me the page number that passage is located on.

So you are all wrong.

Christ, dude. Why don't you just shout "nanny nanny boo boo"?

Mithral, Adamantine, and other such weapons are already considered MW

In regards to creation times.

The DMG clearly states that Mithral and other such items are already considered MW.

Nope.

 

[Caliban]

This is not a DM call. This is stated very clearly in the DMG.

YOU CAN'T MAKE A MASTERWORK VERSION OF ITEMS MADE OF SPECIAL MATERIALS.

So you are all wrong.

Mithral, Adamantine, and other such weapons are already considered MW by default, and therefore can't be made into MW. This is in the DMG.

The statement in the OA section of the FAQ completely and utterly contradicts EVERY SINGLE RULING made thus far, which means one of two things: 1) that is a special property of those specific weapons; or 2) they don't know what the heck they're talking about.

The DMG clearly states that Mithral and other such items are already considered MW.

Actually, the DMG doesn't state it clearly. The only thing it states is that special materials are considered masterwork for creation times and that this doesn't affect armor check penalty or attack bonus.

It is possible to conclude that this means they are considered masterwork for all purposes, or that this means they take just as long to make as a masterwork item (i.e. use a value of +200 gp to determine creation time instead of the actual value of the material).

The text in the DMG only covers creation time. Technically, I believe that you would still need to make them masterwork before you enchant them. The entry in the FAQ supports that reading of the rules.