Mithril Armor and proficiency.

[Sejs]

If it weren't that way, we would see classes without any armor proficiency, i.e. wizards, frolicking around in mithral chain shirts and shield spells without restrictions.

Other than the 10% ASF, there is no other penalty for a wizard frolicking around in a mithral shirt as-is. The -0 acp means taking a brutal -0 to their various checks.

The heck... I don't remember clicking the 'meta' tag. Removing...

 

[Scharlata]

The -0 acp means taking a brutal -0 to their various checks.

Hmmmm, even MORE frolicking

-0 to all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks isn't that bad, after all.

You got me.

Kind regards

 

[Jhulae]

"... but light armors are still treated as light." DMG, p. 284

If it weren't that way, we would see classes without any armor proficiency, i.e. wizards, frolicking around in mithral chain shirts and shield spells without restrictions. So, I assume that special materials don't actually change armor proficiency prerequisites. The respective armor is just "treated as..." for "purposes of...", unless it says specifically otherwise.

Kind regards

And, not only wizards, but also Monks (and others who get bonuses when not wearing armor) would be able to don Mithral chain shirts if Light were to be considered 'No' armor.

 

[kwiqsilver]

No, it specifically says that light armor made out of mithril (I refuse to pretend it's not straight from Tolkien, by spelling it with an "a" ) is still considered light armor. So a Monk or Duelist would still be restricted. And unless the Arcane failure drops to 0, a Wizard or Sorcerer will have problems, no matter what feats he has.
The classes who would benefit most are the Bard and Hexblade, who could then cast spells in Mithril Breastplates without any spell failure chance.

 

[Jhulae]

No, it specifically says that light armor made out of mithril (I refuse to pretend it's not straight from Tolkien, by spelling it with an "a" ) is still considered light armor. So a Monk or Duelist would still be restricted. And unless the Arcane failure drops to 0, a Wizard or Sorcerer will have problems, no matter what feats he has.
The classes who would benefit most are the Bard and Hexblade, who could then cast spells in Mithril Breastplates without any spell failure chance.

Um, yeah.. that's what Scharlata and I were pointing out.

And, since the proficiency doesn't change (medium armor still needing medium armor proficiency) I can't see how they'd be able to cast in it, either.

Of course, this brings up another point. The 'other limitations' is fairly nebulous. If a bard or hexblade were to get the medium armor proficiency feat, would they then be able to cast in a mithral breastplate for instance? After all, their 'limitation' is only being able to cast in light armor...

 

[Will]

The issue is what proficiency reflects...

If medium armor allows you to move as fast as light armor, allows you to react and twist about as light armor... what is the distinction that proficiency gives you?

What difference between mithral medium and regular light is different enough to affect a character to apply to proficiency?

I think by what my group calls a 'German' reading of the rules, it doesn't say proficiency, but I'm having trouble imagining how that works.

I can imagine don/doff times based on the original armor. There's still lots of straps and so forth. But the only thing I can imagine proficiency gives you is the ability to move and act properly while burdened by armor, which is more based on the stats (max Dex, ACP, etc).

 

[Jhulae]

The issue is what proficiency reflects...

If medium armor allows you to move as fast as light armor, allows you to react and twist about as light armor... what is the distinction that proficiency gives you?

What difference between mithral medium and regular light is different enough to affect a character to apply to proficiency?

I think by what my group calls a 'German' reading of the rules, it doesn't say proficiency, but I'm having trouble imagining how that works.

I can imagine don/doff times based on the original armor. There's still lots of straps and so forth. But the only thing I can imagine proficiency gives you is the ability to move and act properly while burdened by armor, which is more based on the stats (max Dex, ACP, etc).

Um, the proficiency allows one to wear said armor, that's what the proficiency gives. Medium armor is medium armor is medium armor.

Otherwise, why not allow someone with light armor proficiency to wear any kind of armor? Who cares if it's medium or heavy. They have light armor proficency. What more do they need?

 

[Will]

Yes, but other than saying 'it's light proficiency,' it actually matters what it _means_.

Why does someone have light vs. medium proficiency? Saying 'cause they do' isn't useful.

ANyone can wear any armor, they just aren't proficient in wearing it, which means they find it very difficult to perform actions. It's more constricting.

This suggests that proficiency is a matter of learning to accomodate constriction and difficulty moving.

The fact that you have to have light and medium armor proficiency before heavy armor proficiency also suggests a stacking effect. You get used to some constriction, a lot of constriction, and clunking about like the tin man.

 

[Jhulae]

Yes, but other than saying 'it's light proficiency,' it actually matters what it _means_.

Why does someone have light vs. medium proficiency? Saying 'cause they do' isn't useful.

ANyone can wear any armor, they just aren't proficient in wearing it, which means they find it very difficult to perform actions. It's more constricting.

This suggests that proficiency is a matter of learning to accomodate constriction and difficulty moving.

The fact that you have to have light and medium armor proficiency before heavy armor proficiency also suggests a stacking effect. You get used to some constriction, a lot of constriction, and clunking about like the tin man.

It means that someone with 'light proficency' has trained to wear soft, pliable armors like leather, and up to a chain shirt. They're not used to being covered with nonpliable metal (breastplate) or whole suits of chain mail, or splint mail, etc. Just because an armor is mithral does not change the fact that it is still unpliable metal. It only makes it lighter unpliable metal. It doesn't 'magtastically' change it into leather.

Medium armor proficiency (and, with a similar facet, heavy armor proficiency) is the training needed to wear more and more metal without feeling 'constrained'. Mithral, by it's lightness, makes the armor less burdening to those trained in its use, but doesn't change the fact that the armor is still what it normally is.

If someone isn't used to wearing plate mail, whether it's mithral or not, it's still going to feel awkward, chafe, etc., unless one has the training to wear such armor.

 

[Jhulae]

The issue is what proficiency reflects...

Actually, to revisit this statement.. The issue is actually what the rules say and/or imply.

I'll requote the SRD..

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

(Emphasis mine.)

Note that if the intention was to make the armors usable by different proficiencies it would have said "for purposes of armor proficiency", but it doesn't.

Anyway, that's all that needs to be said.

You can either use the RAW, or houserule it. It's your game. As long as you and your players enjoy it, great.