D&D 5E Mitigating Critical Hit Devastation

[MarkB]

I don't understand how this is a critical hit problem, since a 20 always being a critical hit was the same in 4e.

4e softened critical hits from monsters compared to PCs (PCs get to add extra damage based on their magic weapon, monsters did not), made them less swingy by using a simple maximising of base damage, and more importantly, gave PCs a greater cushion of hit points compared to the damage dealt by any single attack.

I played a 4e campaign all the way through from 1st level to the top of Epic, and can think of fewer than a dozen occasions that a PC was even in serious danger of dying, with the actual number of PC deaths being two.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think the lethality of 5e doesnt go far enough, and needs a 50+ dmg in one hit make a death save instant death style rule. I certainly dont see fragile level 1-3 as a probdlem, I see it as exciting and dangerous

 

[transtemporal]

Even with a lot of difficult encounters, I had the opposite experience. A TPK on night one, a few "most of the party unconscious" scenarios, but virtually no actual deaths once players got familiar with the game system. There are just too many ways to heal, control, etc. and a plethora of forced movements, conditions, etc. from most PCs in 4E encounters. Nearly every PC has a few tricks up his sleeve or some big guns they can pull out when necessary.

We're having a similar experience. The first 3 levels were a trial by fire. We had 2 party deaths, numerous near TPKs. Now we're 4, we're starting to get it under control but at least one person goes unconscious per fight (our 2 wizards decided that RP was more important than min-maxing so they have 8 and 11 con respectively).

 

[Bera]

If a crit does double dice of damage, then taking average of double dice is close to just saying max damage. It's less swingy that way and east to calculate. But why be stuck in a world where a crit is just extra damage? A crit could knock the target prone, possibly shatter a shield, weapon, or armor, push the target back, inflict a level of exhaustion, have an encounter-specific environment effect (difficult terrain from a statue or bookcase being toppled), etc. if the players aren't comfortable with the DM having all the power, you could always make a table to roll on or offer the choice: damage or the situational effect.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Probably already stated, but since Crits dont double anything but damage dice its not that big a swing.

In previous editions and PFRPG, the damage dice simply didnt matter. Who cares if you swing 1d8, you stacked power attack, bonuses, str, and all this other stuff that far out-math'd the dice.

The difference between 2d8+3 and (1d8+15)x2 is ridiculous.

 

[Paraxis]

Probably already stated, but since Crits dont double anything but damage dice its not that big a swing.

In previous editions and PFRPG, the damage dice simply didnt matter. Who cares if you swing 1d8, you stacked power attack, bonuses, str, and all this other stuff that far out-math'd the dice.

The difference between 2d8+3 and (1d8+15)x2 is ridiculous.

I think the issue is at low levels. Where a hobgoblin can hit you normally with 1d8+1+2d6 (average 12.5) and then if he crits that 2d8+1+4d6 (average of 24), this is a CR 1/2 monster easily one shotting most level 2 to 3 characters with either a good damage roll or almost always on a lucky crit.

I still say the death at negative HP rule and high damage are what the problem is not the critical hits themselves.

 

[Astrosicebear]

I think the issue is at low levels. Where a hobgoblin can hit you normally with 1d8+1+2d6 (average 12.5) and then if he crits that 2d8+1+4d6 (average of 24), this is a CR 1/2 monster easily one shotting most level 2 to 3 characters with either a good damage roll or almost always on a lucky crit.

I still say the death at negative HP rule and high damage are what the problem is not the critical hits themselves.

As it should. Players can crit on a 1st level spells that do 8d6 damage. Sometimes though, I do not double the 'special' damage dice like from '1st round attack does 2d6 or whatever. Even though RAW indicates you should.

 

[Henrix]

I'd be very wary of throwing hobgoblins et al. at a level one party, even though they are CR 1/2, as they can deal so much damage (as soon as they're not alone).

(Bearing in mind the bit in the Basic DMG about monsters that "might deal enough damage with a single action to overwhelm PCs of a lower level.")

 

[KarinsDad]

We're having a similar experience. The first 3 levels were a trial by fire. We had 2 party deaths, numerous near TPKs. Now we're 4, we're starting to get it under control but at least one person goes unconscious per fight (our 2 wizards decided that RP was more important than min-maxing so they have 8 and 11 con respectively).

Are you talking 4E, or 5E? I was responding to a 4E statement.

In 5E, lethality has not been a problem except when the DM throws deadly encounters at us. We almost never go unconscious (again, shy of deadly encounters).

 

[Astrosicebear]

Depends on the DM's dice too.

My group made it nearly 1 full session in HotDQ, Episode 1, trouncing everything. Multiple patrols just got wiped out. But I was rolling poorly. End of the night, they got caught in the Mill and were doing OK until a single guard took out the fighter with a crit. Its pretty swingy at first.

When they were second lvl finishing out the episode, they were a bit less resilient, but I was rolling better and they were rolling poorly.