Mixing ranged and melee attacks?
- Thread starter skelso
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skelso
First Post
Thanks for all the advice!
I've told my player that if he wants to take "Throw Anything" or get his axes enchanted with "Throwing", he can toss an axe as one of his iterative attacks (once he gets one), and that if he also takes "Rapid Shot" he could even trade out one of his extra Two-weapon fighting attacks for a toss.
He's come back to me with another similar question, though. He wants to know if he takes all of those feats plus Improved Two-weapon fighting, if instead of four melee attacks he can take 2 melee attacks followed by 2 ranged axe attacks.
Rapid Shot only gives one extra attack and doing so is a full-round action. If he just threw his weapons for starters, that and a 5 foot step would be his limit for the round. It seems like it's just squeezing two full-round actions into one, but still it gives me pause. If he can swing four times, why not swing twice, toss twice?
Any further advice?
I've told my player that if he wants to take "Throw Anything" or get his axes enchanted with "Throwing", he can toss an axe as one of his iterative attacks (once he gets one), and that if he also takes "Rapid Shot" he could even trade out one of his extra Two-weapon fighting attacks for a toss.
He's come back to me with another similar question, though. He wants to know if he takes all of those feats plus Improved Two-weapon fighting, if instead of four melee attacks he can take 2 melee attacks followed by 2 ranged axe attacks.
Rapid Shot only gives one extra attack and doing so is a full-round action. If he just threw his weapons for starters, that and a 5 foot step would be his limit for the round. It seems like it's just squeezing two full-round actions into one, but still it gives me pause. If he can swing four times, why not swing twice, toss twice?
Any further advice?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Let's take a first level character with a dagger.
He can take the attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger. Or he can take the full attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger.
Now let's give him the Rapid Shot feat.
He can take the attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger. Or he can take the full attack action, in which case he can either a/ stab with the dagger or throw the dagger, or b/ use Rapid Shot, taking a -2 penalty on all attacks, in which case he can stab with the dagger and throw the dagger, or throw two daggers (assuming he has them drawn or has Quick Draw).
Now let's give him a dagger in each hand.
His attack action is the same as always - stab with one dagger, or throw one dagger. Only one attack with an attack action.
His Full Attack action, he has numerous options. He can make a melee or ranged attack with his primary dagger. He can make a melee or ranged attack with his off-hand dagger. And he can also make a single extra ranged attack via Rapid Shot with one dagger (could be either dagger). Assorted penalties apply: -2 to all attacks if he uses Rapid Shot; -2/-2 if he is wielding both daggers and has TWF; -4/-8 if he is wielding both daggers and doesn't have TWF.
Now let's give him a BAB of +6 and the ITWF feat.
He gets two primary attacks, and two off-hand attacks, and one extra ranged attack. So he could make four melee attacks and one ranged attack, or five ranged attacks (assuming he has five daggers and the Quick Draw feat), or anything in between. Or he can only make four attacks and not suffer the Rapid Shot penalty.
Now substitute all those daggers for waraxes, and the same applies as long as he has the feat or the enchanted axes to let them count as ranged weapons.
Rapid Shot is an option you have if you are taking the Full Attack action, not a separate Full Attack action in its own right - does that make sense?
-Hyp.
He can take the attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger. Or he can take the full attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger.
Now let's give him the Rapid Shot feat.
He can take the attack action, in which case he can either stab with the dagger, or throw the dagger. Or he can take the full attack action, in which case he can either a/ stab with the dagger or throw the dagger, or b/ use Rapid Shot, taking a -2 penalty on all attacks, in which case he can stab with the dagger and throw the dagger, or throw two daggers (assuming he has them drawn or has Quick Draw).
Now let's give him a dagger in each hand.
His attack action is the same as always - stab with one dagger, or throw one dagger. Only one attack with an attack action.
His Full Attack action, he has numerous options. He can make a melee or ranged attack with his primary dagger. He can make a melee or ranged attack with his off-hand dagger. And he can also make a single extra ranged attack via Rapid Shot with one dagger (could be either dagger). Assorted penalties apply: -2 to all attacks if he uses Rapid Shot; -2/-2 if he is wielding both daggers and has TWF; -4/-8 if he is wielding both daggers and doesn't have TWF.
Now let's give him a BAB of +6 and the ITWF feat.
He gets two primary attacks, and two off-hand attacks, and one extra ranged attack. So he could make four melee attacks and one ranged attack, or five ranged attacks (assuming he has five daggers and the Quick Draw feat), or anything in between. Or he can only make four attacks and not suffer the Rapid Shot penalty.
Now substitute all those daggers for waraxes, and the same applies as long as he has the feat or the enchanted axes to let them count as ranged weapons.
Rapid Shot is an option you have if you are taking the Full Attack action, not a separate Full Attack action in its own right - does that make sense?
-Hyp.
skelso
First Post
A couple of questions just occurred to me.
For the special case that you are using throwable weapons such as daggers or javelins, does having the Two-weapon Fighting feat essentially equal rapid shot in the sense that you can toss two daggers instead of just one?
Also, does this mean that a character could have seven ranged attacks per round by having all of the Two-weapon Fighting feats, Rapid Shot and Quick Draw, so long as it's something like throwing daggers?
Thanks
Edit: Upon re-reading your answer, I realize that you've actually answered both of those questions already. At first, this shocked me. However, I've made a fighter that could technically squeeze off 29 melee attacks per round in very special circumstances (spiked chain, whirlwind attack, combat reflexes) so I really shouldn't be shocked.
For the special case that you are using throwable weapons such as daggers or javelins, does having the Two-weapon Fighting feat essentially equal rapid shot in the sense that you can toss two daggers instead of just one?
Also, does this mean that a character could have seven ranged attacks per round by having all of the Two-weapon Fighting feats, Rapid Shot and Quick Draw, so long as it's something like throwing daggers?
Thanks
Edit: Upon re-reading your answer, I realize that you've actually answered both of those questions already. At first, this shocked me. However, I've made a fighter that could technically squeeze off 29 melee attacks per round in very special circumstances (spiked chain, whirlwind attack, combat reflexes) so I really shouldn't be shocked.
Last edited:
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
skelso said:
You can get 7 without Rapid Shot - +16/+11/+6/+1 from BAB of 16 or higher, and three from TWF/ITWF/GTWF.
Rapid Shot makes 8, Haste makes 9, and if you have at least 11 levels in Monk, you can get two more from Flurry of Blows (though it limits you to sai or shuriken for your ranged attacks).
That's about the limit using just the PHB. Once you include all the other material out there, it increases sharply.
-Hyp.
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