[MMIII] Yes. Thank you.

[Alzrius]

I liked the book, except for one thing: What does it TAKE to make Yugoloths be equal to the tanar'ri and baatezu???

An easy method of comparison here is to look at the top of the food chain for each. As of the MM v.3.5, the balor is a CR 20, the pit fiend is a CR 20...so why, here in the MMIII, is the Ultroloth a CR 13?! This wouldn't rub me so badly if the 3E incarnation of the Ultroloth from the MotP hadn't been a CR 16. They actually decreased its power; its supposed to be the yugoloth equivalent of the aforementioned pit fiend and balor!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

It would seem more than a little excessive to me. Undead already have d12 HD and often get bonus HD upon becoming undead to make them tough. (Zombies come to mind). More than half of them get DR too. (Zombies, skeletons, vampires, liches, mummies, etc). Undead that want more hit points should take Improved Toughness.

It might be worth making an exception for certain types of undead--dracoliches, for instance--which otherwise become noticably more fragile by becoming undead, but as a general rule, I think it would be a rather bad idea.

I flipped through it and noticed that quite a few had CHA bonus to hp .. a good mechanic IMO, because undead lack the necessary hp at higher levels. Do you reckon this might be a new mechanic for 4e?

I mean new standard for all undead mechanic.

 

[demiurge1138]

I liked the book, except for one thing: What does it TAKE to make Yugoloths be equal to the tanar'ri and baatezu???

An easy method of comparison here is to look at the top of the food chain for each. As of the MM v.3.5, the balor is a CR 20, the pit fiend is a CR 20...so why, here in the MMIII, is the Ultroloth a CR 13?! This wouldn't rub me so badly if the 3E incarnation of the Ultroloth from the MotP hadn't been a CR 16. They actually decreased its power; its supposed to be the yugoloth equivalent of the aforementioned pit fiend and balor!

Yes, Alzrius, but remember what I said about the CRs being screwy? The MMIII ultroloth has 18 HD, and a suite of spell-like abilites. I'd say it'd be a 16-17 myself.

I still prefer Pant's conversions on these boards, though.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Actually, not in this particular case. The entry specifies that part of the aura's magic causes victims to drown faster than normal. (Don't have the book in front of me, so I can't quote the exact mechanics.)

I hereby dub this monster stupid. Either you metagame your behind off and run away when you see it (until you can prepare waterbreathing), or you die a miserable death. And yet, 8th-level PCs should only expend one-quarter of their resources defeating it? Yeah, tell me another one.

 

[Incenjucar]

The 'take a breath' method is -exactly- what you do. Fairly obvious. That or make use of lizard folk in some manner.

 

[Algolei]

I love mythologically-based critters. Besides the Redcap, anybody know if there are any others in the MM III?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The 'take a breath' method is -exactly- what you do. Fairly obvious. That or make use of lizard folk in some manner.

According to Mouseferatu's post, though, there is no "take a breath method." The creature's description specifically prohibits it. When you enter the aura, you make a Con check or fall unconscious...immediately. No taking a breath, just *bam* unconscious and most likely thereafter, dead.

 

[demiurge1138]

The glastig (again, one we've seen a lot of version of) is the only other mythological critter in the MMIII.

Demiurge out

 

[Gez]

I liked the book, except for one thing: What does it TAKE to make Yugoloths be equal to the tanar'ri and baatezu???

The l*th got the shaft. Ultroloths were supposedly the smartest fiends, and they have a puny, ridiculous Int. Shators (demodand/gehreleth) were supposedly the brawniest fiends, and the only top fiends weaker than them are said Ultroloths.

I love mythologically-based critters. Besides the Redcap, anybody know if there are any others in the MM III?

Well, you have a handful of cute widdle faeries, based on folklore. The Phoelarch/Phoera are an interesting variation on the Phoenix theme. And, uh... Well... I think that's all.

 

[Felon]

I hereby dub this monster stupid. Either you metagame your behind off and run away when you see it (until you can prepare waterbreathing), or you die a miserable death. And yet, 8th-level PCs should only expend one-quarter of their resources defeating it? Yeah, tell me another one.

Oh, c'mon. At least wait for first-hand data before you go dubbing. No, everyone doesn't automatically die a horrible death as soon as you see it. Characters will make DC 10 Con checks, which the whole party shouldn't be failing. Everyone who succeeds can just flee out of the 30-foot aura and handle it like they would a rust monster or black pudding or some other monster that's melee-unfriendly. Even a character who fails the Con check right off the bat doesn't die until three rounds have passed, and the drowning stops if the drowned moves away from the victim (or if the victim is pulled away by an ally).

Now I don't think its CR of 8 is appropriate--basically, 20 HD is too much, and I fail to see where the concept warranted such ridiculous toughness--but it's not outrageously inappropriate. It's more of a 10.

As for Unholy Toughness, I'm hoping that'll be a feat offered in Libris Mortis. Hit points are often an undead's achilles heel. A devourer, for instance, is a rough customer in terms of offense, but at CR 11, those 78 hit points go quickly.