MMORPGs death of RPG

[yennico]

IMHO losing players to MMORPGs depends on the style of the GM runing the adventures. IMHO a very creative and narrative GM will not lose players permanent to MMORPGs. I know that images impress players more than words, but creative players want to make their own image of e.g. a described monster in her head. They want to use their own imagination.

 

[Thanee]

And - like all computer games - MMORPGs do not offer the same "freedom" actual RPGs do.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Siochain]

Well, as a CCG, D20, and MMORPG addict, I'll throw in my 2-pence.

My groups got some hardcore computer gamers, a couple of "casual" computer gamers, and one guy who's got a computer built from my old scraps that kind-of runs NWN. Worst case scenario, we had about a one-month break during open beta of WoW. Now, if we have a session planned, we time our MMORPG playing so that it's not going to interfere. Amusingly enough, the 2 casual gamers are playing WoW with the 2 hardcore gamers, and my buddy's moving in with his brother, who has a system and WoW account...and is playing with us

So, we're still interacting with each other. Still having fun. Just in a slightly different way. I don't think RPG's will ever be "replaced." They can't be. No MMORPG will have, for example, "The Feast of the Gobbler", that awesome free download from Necromancer games. Amusingly enough, my PC's went evil when I ran it for them - which was hilarious, a great time indeed.

And the pay-to-play aspect of MMORPGS - you're paying so that Blizzard/SoE/Mythic/whomever can keep people hired and keep paying for THEIR bandwidth. So far, WoW has been an amazing experience. Does it need some work? Yes. Blizzard's just starting this MMORPG thing, and so far, they've done an amazing job. I can highly recommend the game. Even for non-hardcore players (I'm one of the non-hardcore) you can level up very quickly, and still have fun.

Well, maybe that was more then 2-pence, but, mja

Sio

 

[KenM]

And Guild wars is coming out soon, the first MMORPG that does NOT have a monthly fee. We'll see what kind of impact that makes.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I've never known a game that has failed due to a MMORPG. But since the MMORPG does not offer the same style of play as a tabletop RPG, in some ways the types of players are quite different. A true role player will most likely find an RPG to be to their preference due to the wide available options. I have some players which casually play MMORPG and they manage to play a little bit of it, have normal lives and get to their jobs, RPGs and social committments on time. I am sure there is the occassional 'calling in sick' to work but no greater than I do (and I am jst goofing off anyway). I imagine the MMORPG would be more threatening to the PS2 market or computer games than they would do the LARP or RPG market. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Psion]

I would have to say I think that MMORPGs have thinned out the player pool. People I know who used to play, I contact about a new game, and I was kindly told that tehy get their fix these days with Evercrack.

I consider it unfortunate, but I can't really argue the merits that they see. MMORPGs seldom share the scheduling coordination hassles of tabletop RPGs.

Too bad MMORPGs do nothing for me.

 

[Turjan]

I consider it unfortunate, but I can't really argue the merits that they see. MMORPGs seldom share the scheduling coordination hassles of tabletop RPGs.

Depending on the severeness of the scheduling problem or your gaming addiction, this can be a hassle or a boon. With MMORPGs, you can spend as many time with gaming as you want. Many people don't know when to restrict themselves, and RL might suffer much worse from this than from tabletop RPGs. In this regard, the hassle might be some kind of natural limitation.

 

[Rum Ranger]

How many of you have had your campaigns fail due to MMORPGs? I'm curious.

Never heard of it because PnP roleplayers tend to be of a different mindset than the ones you'll find on MUDs and MMORPGS. Granted, most RPers I've met have played those types of RPGs, but most of the ones I've met come to a conclusion that they're mostly timesinks and can become quite addictive. I never actually payed for MMORPGs like Everquest (tried it on a friend's computer) but I did spend several hours on MUDs like Achaea, Threshold, and Aardwolf. Never spent a dime on them but I noticed that some people spend hundreds of dollars to improve their characters in games like Achaea (and other IRE games based off the same mechanics) and Threshold (Aardwolf is totally free and openly admits it's pure hackn' slash).

My point is that when it comes down to MMORPGs and MUDs, there really isn't much of a point outside of trying to become one of the more powerful characters in the gameworld. And that requires one to dedicate *a lot* of time and/or money (even if one max's out their level in Achaea they can't even max out one of their skills without getting their hands on credits (which are sold for real cash online) and ranks in skills are far more important in that game than levels). Threshold's even worse because you have to pay to even play after a certain # of hours and at a certain point one has to pay real world cash just to level up because gold drops are so low. If you don't spend so much time in online games, your character quickly becomes irrelevant. While these games pretend they are about roleplaying, in the end they come down to one thing to improve your character: killing huge mobs of monsters over and over again. You could go into player vs. player combat, but to do so and be effective, you'll have to be pretty powerful. Add that to the really silly "roleplaying" where people twirl one another in the street or lick each other or something else with those emotes. Last problem I had was with the "quests" where NPCs give pre-programed speeches and clues can only be recieved if you ask a question in the exact format for the program to recognize. Even then, one has to solve the puzzle exactly the right way instead of thinking of their own solution.

Contrast this to PnP RPGs. In PnP RPG groups (or even campaigns by email), the story arc is tailor made for the PCs so they feel that they're doing something important or at least feel they're the center of the story. There's also more than one way to improve one's character than killing the same mob over and over again. Lastly, PnP RPGs tend to be more lifelike in that NPCs and environments will actually respond to the PCs based on the situation. That's what I enjoy about PnP RPGs and I've yet to really find an online RPG which can substitute for it (regular CRPGs can't replace it, but they have one thing MMORPs and MUDs lack: the fact that the story arc is centered on the player rather than an online community where the player is a small fish in big pond).

 

[Rum Ranger]

Not qualified to comment on the affect of MMORPGs, but I can comment on smaller scale RPGs, specifically Neverwinter Nights. I can attest to at least a dozen folks I personally know who were drawn into PnP, or reintroduced to PnP via NWN. Count me among the latter. Played PnP many years until school and work and eventually life got in the way. NWN dragged me back in. Now I spend far more time (& $) on PnP than I ever thought possible. It's pushed NWN to the lowest of my playtime priorities.

Mileage definitely differs for Morrowind or BG types, but NWN is so close to the real beast a player can't help but get involved in the books and rules at some point. It's a short jump to PnP from there. I for one wanted to see and share physical space with my fellow gamers again.

I got NWN but can't get it to run properly on my CPU. The framerate is choppy and "jumps" so it's nearly impossible to control my character. It's probably because my CPU is so old that the graphics don't run smoothly, but overall it looks like a cool game. Morrowind is also great (although it's buggy even on the X-box) but the fun from it comes from exploring the world without being worried about an addict of the game whose character is so powerful casual gamers can't compete coming around and stealing everything they earned and destroying their character. I had it happen to me on Achaea where my 23rd level Magi was out fishing to earn a living and was assaulted by a person who logged in thousands of hours and maxed out all of his skills (by paying cash IRL for credits in game, of course). I had no defense to him or her taking everything I had, killing my character, and making me lose XPs and levels. I gave up on my character because it would take hours just to get back the supplies I lost unless I payed for credits and sold them on the market for gold to buy the stuff back. In PnP games like D&D, players at 3rd level would be royally ticked off if the DM for no reason decided to pop in a group of 50th level NPCs out of nowhere, who then proceeded to steal all their stuff and kill their characters. There'd be no way they could stop it, so "challenge" isn't an issue. Most players would walk out on a DM who pulled a trick like that on them time and time again. And seriously, would you blame them?

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Maybe a more accurate analogy would be paying for the gas you use.

From what I understand, the intial buying price of the game goes into paying for the initial development costs. From there, the monthly fees go into server/bandwith, content upgrades, and user support.

So a far more accurate analogy would be to finds something involving rent or maintenence costs and an initial large down payment. Maybe it's more like renting an apartment where you have to pay a starting fee for signing up and security. Or perhaps it's more like purchasing a cell phone plan, where you have to pay all the signup fees, then have to pay a monthly fee (at least there are no hour limits).

Not that I have a problem with anyone avoiding MMOs because of monthly fees. It's just that finding an appropriate analogy is intriguing.