D&D 5E Mobile Monk - should I take any levels of Rogue?

[Eyes of Nine]

My concept for my monk is to dance in, lay in some punches, and then dance out to the periphery again.

Should I take a couple levels of Rogue to get 1. Sneak Attack (+Damage) and 2. Cunning Action (+Mobility)?

Or once I get to 2nd level, start burning those ki points for step of wind and skip the 2nd level of Rogue? I still like the Stealth proficiency and the sneak attack dice for Rogue 1; but that 1 d6 of sneak attack bonus damage will fade in usefulness... when?

And then take Mobility at Monk 4 as my feat, instead of pumping up my ability scores (currently 16 in Dex/Wis; 14 in Con).

I plan to pick Open Hand at Monk 3; or maybe one of the Xanathar's sub-classes?

btw I started to think about taking Rogue before I realized ALL my ki refreshes after a short rest, not a long rest. So now I'm planning to spend ki like it's going out of style.

As you can see, I'm conflicted - take Rogue? Or not.

Thanks for any help.

btw, my GM is running Tomb of Annihilation; so I expect we'll only make it to L15 or so - if that.
btw2 - we already have a Tabaxi rogue; so from a party role standpoint we're covered.

Chris

 

[Leatherhead]

You don't want to dip Rogue: You need a real weapon (not your fists) in order to use sneak attack, and Monks have way better things to do with their bonus action than just disengaging.

You want the Drunken Master from XGtE. Drunken Technique lets you Flurry of Blows, Disengage, and get a speed boost all at the same time.

 

[rgoodbb]

Personally I would stick with Monk. I wouldn't delay getting to 4th level and the Stun at 5th is pretty powerful. You get something nice at each level early on. That will also give you time to get used to the playstyle of the class (if you're not already used to it) before you become even more awesome.

Monks are cool anyway. As you said you have the Ki that are there to be used. Open Hand is good. Drunken Master seems fun, although I have never seen one, and you won't be stepping on anyone else's toes if that's a thing.

2 pre-levels of rogue is a long time to wait for your first ASI/Feat (6th) and Stun (now 7th). Go Monk, take Mobile, and don't look back. That's what I would do. But have fun in whatever you choose.

 

[EulerIdentity]

What Leatherhead is saying is that getting sneak attack damage as a rogue requires you to use either a finesse weapon or a ranged weapon. A monk's fists are neither, so when you're punching and kicking things as a monk, those hits cannot do sneak attack damage even if you also have rogue levels. It's painful to survive on the meagre supply of Ki points you get at low levels, and that makes the rogue's Cunning Action very tempting, but it's better to tough it out and stick with the pure monk build. Mobile is extremely good for a monk, as it enables the ideal monk attack style, which is also the style you describe, namely running it, landing a few punches, then running away. You want to make full use of your super-human movement speed and you're not a tank, so standing adjacent to your target from one round to the next isn't generally a good idea, unless your target is an archer or some sort of caster with weak melee attacks.

 

[abirdcall]

Take Mobile if you think it will be fun but keep in mind that it either does things the Monk already does, or has costs the Monk doesn't want to pay.

For example, jumping in a hitting a couple looks then jumping out will likely be unsatisfying as other characters will be much more effective.

Monks are great at Stunning important enemies, if you don't do that you may be disappointed.

 

[abirdcall]

(The Monk also relies heavily on their stats giving up that +2 is huge)

 

[Hawk Diesel]

What Leatherhead is saying is that getting sneak attack damage as a rogue requires you to use either a finesse weapon or a ranged weapon. A monk's fists are neither, so when you're punching and kicking things as a monk, those hits cannot do sneak attack damage even if you also have rogue levels. It's painful to survive on the meagre supply of Ki points you get at low levels, and that makes the rogue's Cunning Action very tempting, but it's better to tough it out and stick with the pure monk build. Mobile is extremely good for a monk, as it enables the ideal monk attack style, which is also the style you describe, namely running it, landing a few punches, then running away. You want to make full use of your super-human movement speed and you're not a tank, so standing adjacent to your target from one round to the next isn't generally a good idea, unless your target is an archer or some sort of caster with weak melee attacks.

Both Daggers and Shortswords count as monk weapons, and therefore could benefit both from increased damage from Monk and Sneak Attack.

 

[CTurbo]

The best way to power up a Monk is to max Dex and Wis ASAP. Forget feats, forget multiclassing, pump those stats.

It has been agreed upon from myself and my party that my 20 Dex, 20 Wis Monk of Long Death is pretty much OP

 

[5ekyu]

this may be more specific than you want but if you look at 15th as max then you are looking at:

1 level rogue costs you timeless body aging thing - no big loss for many cases.
2 levels of rogue costs you diamond souls and the prof on all saves plus reroll is pretty strong.
3 levels of rogue costs you the languages thing - not so big a deal

If i were going to consider it, i would go with FOUR levels of rogue, getting 2d6 sneak and the archtype gains and keeping your ASI gains on track.

However, while i find MC options tempting they tend to delay the "new tiers" abilities and IMO that can turn into an issue from time to time. Does the extra 2d6 once a turn match-up with delaying the extra attack for several levels where others are gaining the tier-2 gains? or delaying the 11th level tradition gains until near the end of the campaign?

EDIT to add - it would seem obvious that if you are going for a weapon-based rogue you look at XGtE way of kensai if that is available. i have no idea whether or not that sub-class is better or worse than others, but choosing the weapon focused sub-class with a weapon focused sneak rogue seems logical. (Same kind of consideration for the rogue sub-clas you choose too if you stay rogue thru 3-4.

 

[SkidAce]

My friend's Way of Shadow monk combined with Rogue levels made a good ninja. Rogue 2/ Monk 8.

He started as rogue, and gained monk levels as his mentor introduced him into shadows and philosophy.

Most of what people say about "losing" or delaying higher level abilities can be true, but since our campaigns usually run from 1st level to around 10 or 12th, its a moot point.

(he used a short sword left behind by his vanished mentor, and flurry/stun. Very effective.)