D&D 4E Modding 4e

[fjw70]

I love 4e as an engine, and its diversion from 30 years of same ol same ol canon. I wa sthe creator of the Rouseketeers, here! And O.A.F (old school admirers of fourth edition, lol) Eventually I also moddded it for simplicity and remove the grid/minis as we all prefer TOtM play..From the looks of it, In some ways I kinda 13th Aged 4e. But it ended up being alot of work modding powers, and especially adventure conversion, and it was not adding any significant fun factor at the table for the players. So I grudgingly dropped it, and instead added some things about 4e we liked to our OD&D S&W mashup.


But I would love to continue that 4e game if I had tonsof prep time. I can wing a 4 hour session of Od&D with not too much effort, not so with modern D&Ds....too many books, stats, etc.


We have started a DCC game recently, and it is proving to be a nice mix of modern sensibilites and fresh takes on classic D&D elements without the hassle.


Sorry for the OT.

I decided to move this discussion to another thread to not derail that one.

4e is a very flexible game engine (more flexible than WotC realizes or will admit). Modding it to be a simpler game that plays the same way just without minis and grids would take some work (143th Age would probably work well for this).

I go a different way with my modding of 4e. I go for really simple, either with generic powers or no powers. Here is a summary of my current iteration of a lite RPG using 4e's basic structure.

After some playing and thinking I have decided to ratchet back the complexity a little bit. Not that it was that complex but I want to eliminate encounter and daily powers. Those just aren't need right now. These changes will get this basic game more in-line with my original goal of a BX complexity level game using 4e's mathematical structure.


First I am eliminating AC, Fort, Reflex, and Will for monsters and replacing it with a single Defense score that is equal to level + 14. Spells will now get a proficiency bonus so that their numbers are on par with weapon attacks.


I have used different types of minions over the time I have played 4e and for this iteration I have settled on minions having HP of 5 plus twice level. With the targeting rules below this should result in most attacks that target minion groups dropping one or more minion with a successful hit.


The combat rules will be similar to the 13th Age combat rules regard to positioning. When you target monsters you can target one standard, elite, solo, or minion group. Excess damage from a minion attack gets passed to the next minion. For example, a group of 0 level kobolds would have 5 hp each. It an attack against the group does 12 points of damage then two kobolds would die and the group takes an extra 2 points so that another attack that does 3 points of damage would drop another kobold.


Spell attacks work the same as weapon attacks. With a spell attack you can target a monster or group that is engaged or at range. So for example,if you are a fire wizard and attack an engaged group of minions then you can narrate the effect as a burning hands spell. If you attack a group at range then you can say it is a fireball spell.


Both weapon and spell attacks do 1[W] at first level and an additional [W] for each three levels gained (i.e. 2[W] at 4th, 3[W] at 7th, etc.), and add the PC's level to the damage.


Armor is simplified to light (+3 to AC), medium (+5 to AC) and heavy (+7 to AC). Shields add +2 to AC and Reflex. Neither medium or heavy armor get Dexterity bonuses.


Now onto the classes.


Clerics can wear light or medium armor, and use shields. They are proficient with all one-handed melee or thrown weapons (they can add their god's favored weapon at the DM's discretion). They can make d6 radiant spell attacks.


Fighters can use any armor and shields, and are proficient with any weapons. Monsters need to make a hard saving throw (16+) to disengage from the fighter and cannot opt to take an opportunity attack instead.


Rogues can use light armor and are proficient with all one-handed melee, thrown, and light and medium ranged weapons. Rogues add 2d6 to the damage of any attack in which the target is engaged with one of the rogues's allies or is unaware the of the rogue's presence (this increases to 3d6 at 11th level and 4d6 at 21st level).


Wizards cannot use any armor or shields and are proficient with one-handed melee and thrown weapons. They can make d8 spell attacks and must choose a primary damage type that their spells do. They can change this damage type by reducing the [W] of the attack by 1. They can cast utility spells a number of times a day equal to their Int score plus half-level (remember ability score range from -1 to 4 for PCs). When using a utility spell they can use their Arcana bonus for any skill check.


All PCs can choose any 5 trained skills at 1st level and their are no changes to the non-armor defense bonuses and HP that each class gets.

This mod is pretty easy to do and lets me run things on the fly (like I do in OSR D&D). However, it has some significant change from OSR D&D. First, it eliminates the single digit PC, adds healing surges, has pretty clear and easy monster building math, has a unified skill system, etc. Those are a lot of the things I like about 4e (though I realize not every likes these things).

I still like regular 4e too but I like a simpler game sometimes too. 4e's basic structure gives me both. If I wanted more of a medium complexity game I could mod one using 4e but that would take more work and 13th Age fits the bill pretty nicely.

I would love to see what other people have done to mod simpler games for 4e.

 

[JeffB]

Hey! I like alot of these ideas.

But my little one iust woke up from her nap. Will have to elaborate later

 

[Garthanos]

Hmmm I would say that makes armor types too distinct functionally .. ie it makes my Zorro and movie Conan characters out to be fools since only Lancelot is supported.

 

[fjw70]

Hey! I like alot of these ideas.

But my little one iust woke up from her nap. Will have to elaborate later

If that situation came up I would probably allow the player to trade armor proficiency for a +3 AC bonus when unarmored. Assuming those characters would have a high Dex then they should have decent AC.

 

[Garthanos]

If that situation came up I would probably allow the player to trade armor proficiency for a +3 AC bonus when unarmored. Assuming those characters would have a high Dex then they should have decent AC.

Nods just pointing out their were some reasons heavy armor and light armor is less distinct in 4e than it might have been in some earlier editions;
i actually hear 3e had reflavor supported ie that plate armor you got on looks like the Celtic blue body paint?

 

[fjw70]

Yeah you could just give each class a base AC and let the player flavor as desired. Something like

fighter AC 17 + shield bonus
cleric AC 15 + shield bonus
rogue AC 13 + Dex/Int bonus
wizard AC 10 + Dex/Int bonus

 

[JeffB]

The armor rule is similar to how I do weapon damage by class in my Od&D games.


[MENTION=80924]fjw70[/MENTION] How does this system work when converting existing 4e material, or running a baddie straight out of the MM/MV? By work, I mean, how easy..how much prep, etc..?

 

[fjw70]

I have considered a weapon damage by class but I haven't yet.

As far as monsters go these rules are completey compatible with official 4e monsters, with a couple small changes. The NADs need to be increased by 2 to account for the spell proficiency bonus. I would also add 1/2 level to skill and initiative checks. When creating custom monsters I use the level as the base skill bonus and add between -2 and +5 to that dependening on how good I think a monster is at a particular skill (e.g. Ogres would have level-2 for acrobatic checks and level+5 for strength checks).

Other these things (that I do on the fly so no prep) I just use the parts of the stat block I need. For most monsters I just use their basic attacks and ignore encounter and recharge powers. For a monster like a dragon I obviously still use the breath weapon. Again this in done on the fly so no prep necessary to use official monsters.

I also use a lot of custom monsters for these rules as well. Here is the stat skeleton I use for standard monsters:

HP = 20 + (level x 8)
Defense = Level + 14 (this is for AC and NADs)
Attack bonus = Level + 5
Damage = Level + 8
Initiative = Level (with the -2 tp +5 skill adjustment, if needed).

This pretty much covers a lot of monsters I use. From here I tweak as little or as much as I want. Here are some trait packages I use:

Soldier/Heavily armored = +2 to AC
Brute = -2 to AC and add level x 2 to hp
Artillery = -2 to AC, minus 2 x level to hp, and + to ranged attacks

I will also tweak the NADs sometimes (usually in pairs of +/-2). Here are some examples:

Ogres will typically get a +2 to fort and a -2 to reflex
Goblins will typically get a +2 to reflex and -2 to will

I usually don't write these down a head of time. I will use the defense score and then manage the exections. If there are a lot of exceptions for a particular battle then I will note it on my scratch pad during play. So again for prep involved.

I too like to run things on the fly so I try to do as little prep as I can.

 

[ashockney]

I too, enjoyed 4e quite a bit. In particular - quick DM prep, skill challenge system, and high level play were masterfully done. Most of my games are run at cons, so to modify in an effort to produce more "ToTM" effect (but still support grid/combat for those that want it, I made the following modifications to what I called 4e simplified:

Use the 4e Character Builder (Dungeons and Dragons Online Tool)
No Attacks of Opportunity
No Action Points
No Daily Attack Powers
No Second Wind Action (this can be a racial or class feature for "defender" characters who take it as a utility)
Most character classes may "blend" a second wind effect into a utility power of 14th level or higher when triggered.
No Death Saving Throws - there is one chance to survive (one round for magic/skill intervention to stabilize you)
No ongoing effects (save ends) all effects are until ENT = End of Next Turn
No magic item encounter powers (unless taken as a utility), these are otherwise simply stripped from characters. Magic items still grant their "properties".
No "insta-heal" available, maximum one power per four levels can "grant" a healing surge (1:1st-4th; 2:5th-8th; 3:9th-12th; 4:13th-16th; 5 of 10 powers max above 17th level)
No support healing availble, half of the insta-heal limitation for support such as warlord, paladin, shaman to a maximum of 3 of 10 powers above 17th level.

Simpler Character Sheet - everything you need should fit on one Excel Spreadsheet sample character sheet (see Character Sheet)
Simpler Initiative - take turns going around the table for initiative, and take initiative in groups. Surprise is -10 to group initiative roll.
Simpler Healing - in a short rest you can spend up to two healing surges, in an extended rest you can spend up to three healing surges
Simpler Actions - you start the game with daily attacks (melee and ranged) and one attack power and one utility power.
Simpler Rest - all powers are reset with a short rest.
Simpler Ritual Casting - you can do anything "level" and "class" appropriate in a skill challenge format
Simpler Exploration and Interaction - you can explore or interact at any time, including in combat, using the skill challenge method (also see below)
Simpler Skill Challenge - there is a simpler system to handle skill challenges and enhance drama, see "sheet" below
Simpler Tactical Combat - movement is assumed to be 5, 10, 15, or 30 spaces separated. To close/separate requires an appropriate move action.
To close/separate with tactical advantage from terrain requires a successful move action AND skill check as determined by the DM.
Simpler Power Effects - Blast/Burst Effects target 1dX+1 enemies (where x = the area designated); +1 if crowded
A caster can "call" to attempt to acquire additional targets where they have enemies in the way, with a successful skill check (all at DM's reason).
Simpler Flanking Effect - Flanking grants advantage to an attack, any two opponents attacking the same target (for second opponent).
Any movement removes flanking automatically.
Simpler defender ability - anyone who can "mark" an opponent grants a "defender aura" that can be turned on/off as a free action.
Simpler saving throws - granting a saving throw can end effects that all last until ENT (often increased AoE to offset limited usefulness)
Simpler ad-hoc effects - you can deal an increase of up to 1W damage with a successful skill check, all moderated by the DM (arcana, religion, athletics, etc)
Simpler combat modifiers and powers - the DM has complete authority to "combine" effects into powers or into combined combat modifiers

You gain racial, profession, theme, background, and magic item powers as listed per the usual 4e character builder, but may only choose as many as listed above.
The maximum number of attack powers you may have at one time is 5 at 10th level (gaining one every other level starting with 1st).
The maximum number of utility powers you may have at one time is 5 at 11th level (gaining one every other level starting with 2nd).
Attack and Utility Powers can have additional benefits that occur anytime you use the power ("effect"), only when you hit ("condition"), and only when you "miss".
Utility powers can be used when it is not your turn, you may enact them if they are listed as a "reaction" or "prevent" power and the triggering effect is met.
Utility powers with an Immediate Interrupt trigger are considered "prevent" powers.
You may use a utility power with a "free action" only on your turn. You may use an unlimited amount of free actions, so long as you meet the triggering conditions.
Make magic matter! There are two levels where you get a special character trait, these can be game changing "permanent" magic effects at 9th and 18th level.
These magic mod effects should be the equivalent of "rare" magic items on par with +2 effects (armor/magic) at 9th level, and +4 effects at 18th level.
These magic mods are of course in addition to the appropriate "weapon" attack/damage routine.
Otherwise "common" magic items from the game should be accessible by being made or acquired through skill challenges, or found.
All "uncommon" magic items (or better) MUST be awarded from a DM.
Make race matter! Everyone gets a racial power at 1st level (utility), which can be reset at 14th level.

 

[fjw70]

That's quite a list. Thanks for sharing.

For my adult group I try to not make changes that invalidate the character builder since all the player prefer using the buider. I try to do any adjustments on the DM side or just restricting classes/roles or magic items.

When I play with the kids they everything is up for grabs because the only rules they know are what I tell them and they don't use the character builder.