Modern d20 RPG

[Psion]

Nah. Alternity has its good points, but overall it's a disappointment. Counter-intuitive mechanics.

Only if the only thing that is intuitive to you is "high is good." Plenty of games have existed for years with low-is-good mechanics.

Complexity for complexity's sake.

Where?

*Twice* as many dice rolls as d20, and accomplishes exactly the same thing.

And the problem with that is? You roll the dice at the same time. The math is the same or simpler.

And it does not accomplish the same thing. Many people have a real problem with linearity because it makes extremes to easy. OTOH, many people have a problem with bell curves or dice pools because the odds are too difficult to anticipate. Alternity has the best of both worlds: odds are easy to calculate, but has diminishing chance of success at extremes.

 

[Turanil]

This thread has given me the desire to create a houserule for easy and lite d20 Modern classes.

My complaint with d20 Modern classes is that creating PCs and NPCs takes hours, and finally doesn't make the game better. So I am thinking about doing it like that:

-- 3 bases 20 lvl classes, in the spirit of Unearthed Arcana, that is: Warrior, Expert, Intellectual.
-- A set of core skills by profession, determined once and for all at first level, inspired by CoC d20, instead of Starting Occupations and whatnot. Also, I want to get rid of all those bonus feats. Talents: Intellectuals would get one talent per two levels, but other classes may get less as compensation for greater BAB and hit-dice (need some calculations).
-- Even number of skills points per level. Humans are not the default race, so you add normally (as per DnD) your bonus feat and bonus skill points when playing a human. I hate this stuff of substracting skill points and feats when playing other races (such as those featured in d20 Future).
-- Action points, defense bonus, reputation, and free multiclassing remain. I will also add Sanity Points.

I would like to know your opinion about this. Maybe you would instead prefer a dozen different base 20 lvl classes, with strictly determined professions (ala DnD)? Or maybe needs to add archetype advanced-prestige classes? (like Bene-Gesserit for a sci-fi setting, Psychic, etc.)

All of this will go with a simplified combat system I have been working on for some time...

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Not that it solves the problem for everybody, but I like to use Excel character generators for d20 Modern. I couldn't honestly tell you how long it would take me to make a character without it. Probably not too much longer, as I have had alot of experience with the system by this point.

http://uk.geocities.com/d20modernheroes/modern-heroes.html

That's the one I use. It makes creating characters a total snap.

Alternity has WALTER, which is a stand-alone piece of software for character creation that works wonderfully.

--fje

 

[Trainz]

I think the class system in d20 modern works, but must admit that I'm not exactly in love with it.

Trainz, are you looking for something specific.... or rather, would something rather less generic than d20 modern be a problem for you? The Red Star (which I am working on a review of) is d20 modern based, but chucks the basic classes and goes strictly to profession style classes. But it's pretty strongly flavored. (But it's a beautiful book.)

That looks quite interesting Psion. I'll have to look at it when it comes out.

But like I said, it turns out my players do not want to play in a modern game for now, so... yeah.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

I think you're not giving Alternity enough credit. I've seen it do fantasy (I've done it do fantasy ... er ...) and I've seen it do Supers (but I'll admit, I didn't like that as much). I've used it for Modern and Sci-Fi and I'm sure it would take me about ten minutes to do a pulp game with it.

Well, of course you *can* use Alternity for other genres. Hell, you could use Unknown Armies to do a Sailor Moon campaign if you really tried hard enough. You can use *any* system for just about *any* genre, if you hammer square pegs into round holes.

But Alternity really doesn't *work well* for anything other than sci-fi and modern. It isn't designed for anything else.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

The clerk asks if you need help loading the TV into your car.

...or if the circumstances warranted it:

The clerk looks a bit uncomfortable and hands you back your card "I'm sorry sir but your card has been denied. Is there anything else I can help you with?"

Wow. You're going to actually keep track of each character's credit card balances, interest rates, and credit histories? You must be a financial advisor or something. Most GM's would just use wealth checks.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

...and that reason has absolutely nothing to do with the relative merits of the system. It was killed because WoTC wanted to maintain a single product line.

Nope. It was killed because it didn't sell very well. It didn't sell very well because it wasn't a very good game (in the opinion of most gamers).

But if it wasn't for Alternity, we wouldn't have d20 Modern/d20 Future, nor would we have Dark*Matter. So for that I am grateful.

 

[jonrog1]

Actually I was recommending Alternity not for its dice grit -- you foul mechanics, you -- but for its character design ideas, which was the question I believe originally began this thread.

Combat, Freelance, Expert and Diplomat, if I remember correctly. The characters were built up by HOW THEY SOLVED PROBLEMS. Neat. "Classes" as you'd think of them were built up as templates, almost like classes in M&M.

And I have to respectfully disagree with you on the whole "you can pound any square peg into a round whole" idea. Unknown Armies for Sailor Moon doesn't work not just because of the mechanics, but because of the tone. It's built for horror. Alternity's core mechanic was purely generic. There was absolutely nothing in there which precluded it from being just as effective for fantasy as it was for modern or sci-fi other than a lack of imagination.

The best example of a similar system which works like a charm is SAVAGE WORLDS. I once mixed five genres in a Savage Worlds game, and it worked flawlessly.

This is not to apologize for Alternity's shortcoming's by the way. I too thought the dice mechanic itself was brutal, and those variable armor ratings ... ech. It is perhaps the best example of some genius design philosophy hamstrung by bad game mechanic. As opposed to, in my humble opinion, D20, which is a super game mechanic burdened with some impressively clunky design.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Krieg]

Wow. You're going to actually keep track of each character's credit card balances, interest rates, and credit histories? You must be a financial advisor or something. Most GM's would just use wealth checks.

Of course that is nowhere near what I said, but whatever gets you through the night.

Nope. It was killed because it didn't sell very well. It didn't sell very well because it wasn't a very good game (in the opinion of most gamers).

Comments made by individuals who were at WoTC have said otherwise, but of course I will gladly trust your baseless word over what they stated.

Feel free to provide us with some factual data backing up your assertion that "most" gamers don't believe Alternity was or is a good game.

 

[barsoomcore]

http://uk.geocities.com/d20modernheroes/modern-heroes.html

Yo, Heap -- that link seems hosed. Do you have a version you can post somewhere? I'd near about KILL for a good Modern chargen.

EDIT:

No wait, if you go HERE:

http://uk.geocities.com/d20modernheroes/

It works fine. Oh, that wacky internet.