Modern d20 RPG

[Trainz]

Greetings from the great white north...

I bought d20 modern and played with my peeps from 6 to 12 months. We never played again.

Now at first, I thought that was because I didn't like modern RPG's, but during the past few days, I've had a craving to start GMing modern games again. But then, I feel some pavlovian shiver crawling up my spine as I consider doing the game.

And then it dawned on me: it's not Modern gaming that I don't like, it's the d20 modern system ITSELF.

Basically, i don't like the stat based class system that you must take for a few levels before taking the class you really want to play. In fact, I absolutely despise it. It's a hassle to create NPC's. If a player of mine wants to play an 8th level soldier, well I want him to have a single classed 8th level soldier, not some munchkinised 2nd level X - 3rd level Y - 3rd level soldier. IMHO, it's an abomination. An utterly despicable revolting abomination. Note the "IMHO". I might be the only one feeling that way.

Second, the monetary system is weird. It seems smooth, but I found that in the end I didn't like it. The players don't have a real sense of what their cash really is.

Third, I read the chapter on vehicles three times, and finally decided that there wouldn't be car chases IMCs. That's sad, because everyone knows that car chases are an integral part of any modern game.

NOW...

The purpose of this thread is NOT to complain. I am grateful that WotC did d20 modern. That said, that game is definitively not for me; but I still want to play modern d20 system games.

SO...

Is there a published game out there that, given what I typed above, would satisfy my needs ? I do not need rules for magic, psionics, fantasy races and all that. If I eventually want to integrate these items, it is quite simple for me to simply grab my D&D PHB. I just want a simple but dynamic and fun modern system.

AND, if possible, I want that system to be 3.5 compatible.

To all those that will try to help me out, a humongous thank you in advance. Know that your assistance is grandly appreciated and you have my eternal gratitude.

 

[2WS-Steve]

It sounds like Spycraft would be worthwhile to look at. The class system promotes sticking to one class (or one class and a prestige class) and I thought the budget and gadget points worked well for outfitting characters.

If you want some powered elements added in, Dark Inheritance -- the Spycraft version -- is also nice.

 

[Trainz]

It sounds like Spycraft would be worthwhile to look at. The class system promotes sticking to one class (or one class and a prestige class) and I thought the budget and gadget points worked well for outfitting characters.

If you want some powered elements added in, Dark Inheritance -- the Spycraft version -- is also nice.

Hmmm... Spycraft ?

Isn't that a James Bondy RPG ?

I want something generic modern, would Spycraft allow for your typical d20 3.5 modern game? Let's say you want to have a party of soldiers, with some experts and medics in it ?

I'm not sure I really need points for gadgets...

 

[Trainz]

If all fails, I'm simply gonna use d20 modern, and make my own classes, my own monetary/buying system, and vehicle rules...

... basically rewriting half the darn book. Damn.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Hrmmmm ...

I would suggest Grim Tales, but it only fixes 2.5 of your problems. It has a fine and simple Wealth OR Cash system, has the Spycraft style vehicle and chase rules, and doesn't have any Advanced Classes.

Unfortunately it took the broad classes and expanded them out. It also expanded them all the way to 20th level so, if you wanted, you could stay in one class for every level.

For my own part I think Wealth and the generic classes are the core genius of d20 Modern, but everybody's mileage may vary to their tastes. I think of it as the flexibility of a classless system with non of the horrific balance issues. And Wealth is so cool I've adapted it into all of my other d20 based games.

GT may fix some of the stuff you hate. Spycraft is JamesBond-ish but apparently is flexible enough to be shoe-horned into other stuff. The problem with MODERN gaming is that there's so much ground to cover that doing so with 4-8 core defined classes is quite hard. Thus the generic classes in the first place. I think GT would get you away from: "Why do I take three levels in something I don't want to get to the class I want?" and works that generic magic a little more. I generally don't play with AdCs, myself, as I think they're usually a bit redundant. You can usually strip the interesting stuff out and make them into Talent trees, anyway ... which is what AdCs really ARE ... specific talent trees packaged and presented together.

--fje

 

[Turanil]

<...>

Basically, i don't like the stat based class system that you must take for a few levels before taking the class you really want to play. In fact, I absolutely despise it. It's a hassle to create NPC's. If a player of mine wants to play an 8th level soldier, well I want him to have a single classed 8th level soldier, not some munchkinised 2nd level X - 3rd level Y - 3rd level soldier. IMHO, it's an abomination. An utterly despicable revolting abomination. Note the "IMHO". I might be the only one feeling that way.

Second, the monetary system is weird. It seems smooth, but I found that in the end I didn't like it. The players don't have a real sense of what their cash really is.

Third, I read the chapter on vehicles three times, and finally decided that there wouldn't be car chases IMCs. That's sad, because everyone knows that car chases are an integral part of any modern game.

<...>

If all fails, I'm simply gonna use d20 modern, and make my own classes, my own monetary/buying system, and vehicle rules...

... basically rewriting half the darn book. Damn.

I perfectly understand your point of view. I also do like the d20 Modern (and moreso d20 Future in fact) idea, but not much its implementation. I am currently writing a sci-fi d20 game based on d20 Modern and Future SRD, but with simplified rules, and above all easy to create characters with simple classes (soldier, medic, engineer, and others). However, before this is finished and released, one full year will have passed...

Until then you could take a look at Traveller 20. It's a sci-fi game, but easily portable to modern era, since it portrays a kind of obsolete science fiction IMO (eighties ambiance + spacecrafts). At least it has simple 20 level classes (rogue, soldier, academician, etc.).

 

[Turanil]

dbl post

 

[Trainz]

I just finished checking reviews for Spycraft and Grim Tales, and came to the sad conclusion that these are not what I'm looking for.

I still wish to thank you guys for bringing them to my attention.

 

[Ranger REG]

Then I should not suggest Adventure! d20 to you.

 

[takyris]

Definitely a matter of taste. I love using the generic classes, because then my players don't define their characters by their classes -- they define their characters by their personalities, and their classes are just a way to get the skill package they want. So, for example, if someone wants to make a soldier, I ask them what kind of soldier, and then say something like, "Great, your Lieutenant might be a Strong 3/Smart 3, and the Military background would work perfectly for you."

But if you really want to define your character's concept by his classes, then d20 Modern is going to be massively frustrating for you. That's not at all intended to be a slam -- it's a perfectly fine way to game. I personally am frustrated going back to core D&D because so many character concepts I want require an ugly kludge of multiclassing, and core D&D multiclassing can be problematic at times...

So... find something you like. Heck, you might enjoy Call of Cthulhu d20, if you want "Ordinary folks" -- just give them d8 hit dice instead of d6, and up the attack progression one notch, or something, to make them more combat-ready...