"Modern New Age Mythic Game": RPG design by formula

[Nisarg]

How many games do you know fit into this formula?

http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue7/howtowriteagame1.html

They are the example of everything I find dull as crap about most new RPGs these days. With the tweaking of one or two points, and toning down the abject sillyness of the article, it makes the serious point that a lot of RPGs these days are being made according to a formula.

In fact, I'm sure a similar "formula" could be created for fantasy settings. How many could you imagine being described as: "a dark fantasy world, of great empires, a time of crisis, and wonderous new powers"? And that's just the short form, I'm sure there's a long-form formula someone could come up with given some time and effort.

So much for the creativity of RPGs.

Nisarg

 

[Crothian]

The fact that something seems formulaic does not prevent it from being creative. Too many people seem to think only different and unique things can be creative.

 

[GMSkarka]

They are the example of everything I find dull as crap about most new RPGs these days.

Supposedly "clever" commentary on game design, mocking White Wolf tropes from the early 90s? Yeah, I know what you mean.

 

[Nisarg]

Supposedly "clever" commentary on game design, mocking White Wolf tropes from the early 90s? Yeah, I know what you mean.

I don't see that any of those tropes have really seriously changed; in fact, if you remove the "modern" elements of the formula you could say mostly the same about Exalted.

However, its not just White Wolf products we're talking about. Consider a description someone recently made on a forum of a particular RPG:

These human gets turned into supernatural beings by these other supernatural beings who force a bit of their essence down their throats.

The supers are overly-socialized and organized into theses venomous groups. The groups are tentatively arrayed together against an uber-enemy, which ought to cause them to stop squabbling and unite, but doesn’t really. There is a real sense of cynicism and falsity to every faction so that conspiracies abound.

There’s a blatantly “adventuring party“situation which is used to promote “coteries” formed from completely dissimilar characters and force them to be a group.

Despite the characters being uber-powered, there are still bigger, uberer guys who control everything and enforce this poisonous social structure so that the characters have to act around everything or play the social game but can’t really change things.

The bad guys use this thing to destroy the old supers and drain their powers. The players might too, although that would be “bad”.

Use your blood to create a bond with someone which represents some kind of dysfunctional relationship.

You drain your super-quality to make yourself physically and mentally cooler than mundanes. You can become unobtrusive. Or do something wacky magically, although Rites are mechanically different from other magic.

You’re supposed to be some kind of faery-tale or mythological or cosmic being. At least, sort of. But there’s no real mechanic to encourage play in that particular style, as opposed to super-heroes, say.

Fractured use of Latin to make things sound cooler and more impressive ​

Talking about Vampire or some other white wolf product? No.
The quote was actually describing Nobilis.

And I will agree, that the mere presence of a formula does not guarantee that a product will be bad, but there is archetype and then there's formula. There's Star Wars and then there's "battle beyond the stars"; there's the X-men and then there's "x-title number 245599".

And certain formulas weren't really good to begin with.. considering the fact that the original Vampire game was meant to be a "deep game of personal horror", when in reality virtually everyone used it to play highlander-clones in katanas wielding uzis and trenchcoats.

Or the slavish devotion to metaplot that demanded that every one of these "formula" settings demand that you play an uber-powerful character that is essentially impotent to do anything meaningful because he is constantly hampered by far more powerful NPCs, who exist mainly to make sure the author's "novelistic" vision of the setting will continue to move forward and players and GMs alike can be railroaded.

Nisarg

 

[eyebeams]

I read that. The author got Nobilis factually wrong. He wishes the Excrucians (the ghame's antagonists) were amorphous -- well, they actually are. Like, in the game and stuff. In their descriptions. In the quoted text there's also some screwups:

"You drain your super-quality to make yourself physically and mentally cooler than mundanes."

Aside from the amusing observation that this makes D&D Psions and spellcasters in Runequest equivalent to vampires in this particularly dumb taxonomy, it's not how the system actually works. Abilities in Nobilis are innate. They may be improved with extra effort, but they don't require Miracle Points to activate in the first place. Your character can *never* have human-scale abilites below the near-Olympic/genius level. The character is already more powerful than any mundane.

What I find amusing, though is, the accusation that a game where characters with common cause form social groups to realize it is "oversocialized." Rather says more about the author than the material. Offhand, I can think of at least half a dozen quasi-official organizations I belong to out of shared interest, for professional development and whatnot. I suppose that means I'm munckining my way through life by belonging to an "unrealistic" "splat" like a group of nonprofit IT workers.

Back to the original point, though. Sure -- most RPGs follow a formula, and any RPG can be made to fit into a formula as long as you stretch it enough -- like to the point of uselessness. Let's look at the terribly specific charge of:

"You can become unobtrusive. Or do something wacky magically."

Yep. Nothing over-generalized about that one.

With Nobilis, it's also established that the game is also meant to be played for high action and comedy. It's not really a game with a thesis about anything or an overarching theme in the traditional sense. The example of play includes a Matrix-y fight scene with a jet, helicopters, missiles and superpowers.

Yep -- sure is socially-oriented, there.

So basically, if your concentration is poor -- you skim text instead of reading properly -- and you like to gripe about things to feel cool and different, then I'm sure you can redefine Nobilis with a potent combination of ignorance and bravura.

The question that then arises, of course, is which formulas that are actually predictive and sufficiently restrictive to be something less than useless can be applied to several games.
D&D-style fantasy certainly has one, as do modern occult/horror games.

 

[Turanil]

I tried to read the article, found it exceedingly boring (and rated it accordingly), and didn't know what was the point. (And I don't know Nobilis, Vampire, and else).

 

[Nisarg]

The "overly-socialized" thing for nobilis was meant to refer (I presume, since i'm not actually the author of that particular description, though I agree with most of it) to the fact that in almost all of these modern new age mythic games the players are pigeonholed into these clubs/clans/associations, which in turn are part of some bigger mega-association even though most of these smaller associations don't like each other, all in a bizzare hierarchical pyramid scheme, supposedly justified by arguing the hierarchy exists to fight the other uber-guys that are opposed to your uber-guys.

The real reason, out of game, is that these hierarchies (along with the uber-uber-guys who run them) serve to hamstring and restrict all of the uber-pc's uber-powers. This allows you to have a game where the pcs are superbeings with godlike powers, but can't really use them or they'll have to face the terrible wrath of the uber-godlike superiors in his hierarchy, letting the DM, and ultimately the designers of the splatbooks and metaplot, free to railroad the pcs from one "storytelling adventure" to the next.

And yes, the combat example includes a jet with missles; that's just an example of the classic multiple-personality these games suffer from. The game is filled otherwise with pretentious references to flowers, mangled latin, dark lamentations (ie. angst) and twee references to the neverending beauty of all these various immortals, all so dark and beautiful. They make the point again and again that the game is meant to be played for deep sophisticated "storytelling"; and then they jump in with the helicopter and the missles in the combat example. Just like Vampire is about "deep personal horror", but can't avoid having all kinds of combat mechanics, and underhandedly encourages the katana-trenchcoat paradigm.. making the game in reality nothing but a cover-up for powergamers who feel guilty about being powergamers and want to pretend they're doing something "artistic", and not just being wankers like the rest of us.

So, in your last paragraph you do actually acknowledge that there are formulas in some RPG genres.. care to mention what you think they are?

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

I tried to read the article, found it exceedingly boring (and rated it accordingly), and didn't know what was the point. (And I don't know Nobilis, Vampire, and else).

well, if you don't know any of the modern new age mythic games, you would find that article, and probably this thread, boring.

I notice you're from france.. maybe you know Nephilim? It was a french game, and definitely fits that description.

Nisarg

 

[Crothian]

most of these games are pretty nicht, so the people who play them really like them since they are so specific. That specific is exactly what they want.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

The quote in your second post has been discussed, and countered multiple times in the thread you farmed it from.

As has your assertion that Nobilis is "pretentious".

In fact, there are 80+ posts on the subject right now, and the thread is still on the front page.

For those interested in seeing the quote and its responses in context, go here