Pathfinder 1E Modifying Deity requirement for a D&D / PF setting - do-able?
- Thread starter wlmartin
- Start date
delericho
Legend
It depends what you want to do with regard to Clerics and Paladins.
If you're including them as-is, there shouldn't be any issues at all - just have the Cleric select any two domains, and go from there. Done.
If you want to remove those classes as well, then things are a little more tricky. The loss of the Paladin isn't a particularly big deal, but the loss of the Cleric means the loss of much of the party's healing power. Still, that shouldn't be insurmountable - it's no different from a game where none of the players wants to take a Cleric character.
Still, you might want to make sure the PCs have easy access to other forms of healing and/or cut back on the lethality of encounters.
If you're including them as-is, there shouldn't be any issues at all - just have the Cleric select any two domains, and go from there. Done.
If you want to remove those classes as well, then things are a little more tricky. The loss of the Paladin isn't a particularly big deal, but the loss of the Cleric means the loss of much of the party's healing power. Still, that shouldn't be insurmountable - it's no different from a game where none of the players wants to take a Cleric character.
Still, you might want to make sure the PCs have easy access to other forms of healing and/or cut back on the lethality of encounters.
wlmartin
Explorer
No plans to remove the cleric but need to make them not having a god "make sense"
By giving them access to those domains, how do we explain where that power comes from?
delericho
Legend
Just a couple of ideas...
The 2nd Edition "Complete Priest's Handbook" included the idea of Priests of a Force or Philosophy. The former should be obvious - they draw power from an element, or storms (rather than the god of storms), or whatever.
The latter is particularly interesting, though - it posits that the Cleric draws power from whatever system of belief he follows. So you could have Stoic Clerics, or Pythagorean Clerics, or whatever.
The one official setting that springs to mind for a "no gods" setting is Dark Sun. There, Clerics draw their power from one of the four elements.
wlmartin
Explorer
Elemental Clerics... like the sound of that
Its paganastic, still can involve worship but not to a deity but to an element.
Pagans worshiped the moon, sun, stars and that eventually evolved into polytheism where that worship had a face and a name (Ra god of the sun) not just workshiping the sun.
You could still build organized worship around that i think, thus the cleric still has a function
Otherwise its just a tuned druid
Also it creates rivalry.
The ones that worship the great rock and the ones that worship the eternal flame +politics +rivarly +bloody competition
Kinak
First Post
I've run campaigns without gods (even without casters) before. It can work out fine.
No Gods
This was a story set at the beginning of the world. People had some suspicions they were put there for a reason, but nobody really knew. The story covered the first gods arising and their conflicts. In the setting the newly risen gods were basically just mid- to high-level characters that could grant spells, eventually including several PCs.
What changed? Divine casters weren't available until people started ascending, but no rules changes other than that.
What challenges did you run into? In theory healing should have been a problem, but wewere used to not having clerics, so it wasn't a big deal.
What objections were encountered? No objections. But nobody is my group back then liked clerics anyway.
What was difficult and what became easier? People dying stayed dead was the main thing. Pacing was no different than any other game without a cleric.
Overall, what were your thoughts? Good campaign. 4/5 stars. Would run again.
If I were to run this again with Pathfinder, I'd probably leave out anything in the "Trained" age category (alchemists, clerics, druids, inquisitors, magi, monks, and wizards) to represent that they just don't exist yet. I could probably pare it down to the "Intuitive" category (barbarians, oracles, rogues, and sorcerers) plus fighters and rangers without any objections from my group.
It'd also be a good excuse to play with the mythic rules. I might actually start with "Children of Myth" rules and work from there, but that's a much more dramatic shift.
No Casters
This worked out... less well. Not for balance reasons or anything, one of my players just really liked casters and I wasn't solid enough as a GM yet to sell it to him or tell him to wait for the next campaign.
What changed? No divine or arcane casters until it's (re)discovered. See: many fantasy novels.
What challenges did you run into? Extremely insistent player.
What objections were encountered? "I only play casters! No wait, I'll play and just complain the whole time."
What was difficult and what became easier? Self-destructed too quickly to say.
Overall, what were your thoughts? Failed experiment. Would have gone better if I had more skill establishing buy-in.
Cheers!
Kinak
No Gods
This was a story set at the beginning of the world. People had some suspicions they were put there for a reason, but nobody really knew. The story covered the first gods arising and their conflicts. In the setting the newly risen gods were basically just mid- to high-level characters that could grant spells, eventually including several PCs.
What changed? Divine casters weren't available until people started ascending, but no rules changes other than that.
What challenges did you run into? In theory healing should have been a problem, but wewere used to not having clerics, so it wasn't a big deal.
What objections were encountered? No objections. But nobody is my group back then liked clerics anyway.
What was difficult and what became easier? People dying stayed dead was the main thing. Pacing was no different than any other game without a cleric.
Overall, what were your thoughts? Good campaign. 4/5 stars. Would run again.
If I were to run this again with Pathfinder, I'd probably leave out anything in the "Trained" age category (alchemists, clerics, druids, inquisitors, magi, monks, and wizards) to represent that they just don't exist yet. I could probably pare it down to the "Intuitive" category (barbarians, oracles, rogues, and sorcerers) plus fighters and rangers without any objections from my group.
It'd also be a good excuse to play with the mythic rules. I might actually start with "Children of Myth" rules and work from there, but that's a much more dramatic shift.
No Casters
This worked out... less well. Not for balance reasons or anything, one of my players just really liked casters and I wasn't solid enough as a GM yet to sell it to him or tell him to wait for the next campaign.
What changed? No divine or arcane casters until it's (re)discovered. See: many fantasy novels.
What challenges did you run into? Extremely insistent player.
What objections were encountered? "I only play casters! No wait, I'll play and just complain the whole time."
What was difficult and what became easier? Self-destructed too quickly to say.
Overall, what were your thoughts? Failed experiment. Would have gone better if I had more skill establishing buy-in.
Cheers!
Kinak
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
In past campaigns, I had the dwarven cleric of war, elven priest of elemental power, human cleric who was a father of the holy church.
Mechanically, you can do as little or as much as you want. Beyond the actually cleric class, there are those few "ask a god" spells, but again their are ways to deal with that, either through proxies, or the charecter having a more general revelation (the answer was within you all along...).
You are right that the story side of it is the bigger deal. Presumably, even with a bunch of gods, there is something(s) behind them...what is it, can the cleric tap that directly?
Mechanically, you can do as little or as much as you want. Beyond the actually cleric class, there are those few "ask a god" spells, but again their are ways to deal with that, either through proxies, or the charecter having a more general revelation (the answer was within you all along...).
You are right that the story side of it is the bigger deal. Presumably, even with a bunch of gods, there is something(s) behind them...what is it, can the cleric tap that directly?
wlmartin
Explorer
I know but i want to try and come up with a concept that is devoid of Gods.
Its something I am playing with and i just feel this could be an interesting way of running a campaign.
Much like dark sun, the power void will no doubt be filled with other beings of importance.
I am really liking the idea of basing the world around the concepts of the elements. I can tie this into elemental planes and sources for elemental creatures to come from. Perhaps going so far as to limit the involvement of outsiders to elemental based ones.
People will worship the elements but it would be faux worship since there isnt a deity collecting praise. It is more commitment I suppose that typical devotion.
Of course, I am only one step away from actually putting a face on this elemental setup (and giving the elemental forces a persona, hierarchy etc) and circling back on myself.... so thats an interesting thought.
And now I am warming to the idea of gods, each from the elemental plane and their core idealogy being a focus of that
LOL
wlmartin
Explorer
Love it!... great advice thanks
I know that I want cool magic items
I know that I want casters
So this puts out any early world idea for me as I need magic items to be littered around the place like candy
Also, i want my guys to have oodles of spells to play with and that doesnt work if magic is new
I just really want an option to just snip-out gods, they serve very little purpose in the adventure i am building and if i can suplement them with another function i could be happy
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