modifying the monk class. balanced?

[Kraydak]

i remember hearing at some point that monks were more powerful than the other classes (3.0 maybe?), i dunno
i guess that has changed? or i was misinformed in the first place dunno

In both 3.0 and 3.5 the monk is an extremely weak class. Now, like virtually everything in 3.X, with enough splat books you *can* enhance an aspect of the monk enough to be significant or overpowered, but it is very, very hard.

The biggest problem with fixing the balance issues inherent in the non-spellcasters is that their damage output is generally adequate to powerful (monks do have more problems here than, say, a barbarian), as long as everything goes to plan. However, they have nothing else, and things generally don't go to plan (full attacks can be hard or counterproductive to get). The monk could afford to see a BaB boost, but beyond that you need utility effects and, as mentioned, the ability to do lots of damage W/O taking a full attack.

If you have access to it, the book of 9 swords provides the Swordsage and the Warblade, both of which might work for you, especially if you focus on the less "magicky" powers.

 

[infernuspetrefax]

okay, im not really concerned with being competitive, this isnt an mmo its just a couple of my buddies playing a game. all i really want to know is about how many "bonus feats" worth of goodies i have to give up to get a good BaB, and NOT be anything close to OP, it has just always bugged me that monk has the BaB of cleric, with all the ridiculous spells they get and turn/rebuke and full plate etc... i mean come on i just wanna be a guy who kills up with my bare hands, simple enough.

im not worried about being able to "compete" with other classes as this is a cooperative game for one thing.

also i think im creative enough that i shouldnt have trouble making a changeling monk look borken with all the crazy sneaky crap i'll get to do
also we start at level 5 in a big city

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Be an unarmed swordsage ;p

No, seriously.

Just refluff it. Instead of MYSTIC SWORD WIZARD, be...well hell, I once made a swordsage luchador ;p

 

[infernuspetrefax]

uhh ive never heard of that book, what does a swordsage get for doing unarmed attacks? do they get flurry or monk ac bonus or anything like that?

 

[Starbuck_II]

EDIT: If you give him this stuff, you can ditch most of the monk's usual features. Slow fall wasn't doing anybody any good anyway.

What you do is change Slow fall to catfall.

So it slowly lets him fall from any height and take no damage.
Heck, if you want to retain flavor let him fall 10 feet further by a wall, but in general he doesn't need a wall.

So if he follows the flavor he gets a bonus, but no penalty for just falling anywhere.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Swordsage is in Tome of Battle. They get what are essentially magical martial arts maneuvers that they can perform armed or unarmed. You can also take the Superior Unarmed Strike feat, which grants you a reduced Monk's unarmed strike damage progression based on your character level. (Or boosts your effective Monk level by four. See below.)

Instead, what I'd recommend is Rogue 3/Swashbuckler X/Ninja X. Pick up Daring Outlaw, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Superior Unarmed Strike. Alternate between Swashbuckler and Ninja levels. Better BAB, better skill points, free Weapon Finesse, Intelligence to damage on unarmed strike, and real Sneak Attack. If you're planning on going Epic, Swashbuckler's weapon proficiencies will qualify you for Martial Stalker, allowing your Ninja levels to qualify you for Weapon Specialization, qualifying you for Daring Warrior. That way your Swashbuckler and Ninja levels count as Fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for all of your weapon mastery feats.

 

[Voadam]

If you can find it there was a book by Chainmail Bikini Games published in print by Goodman Games called _Beyond Monks_ that had a martial artist class, basically a 1/1 BAB monk with more martial art options and less of the meditation powers that the core 3e monk has.

The book was 3.0 but the pdf eventually got adapted to 3.5. Unfortunately the pdf is no longer for sale. I don't recall the differences between the 3.0 and 3.5 version being very significant though.

 

[Turtlejay]

It sounds like you have your ideas about what to alter, but instead of discussing it with random internet heroes, you need to go over it with your DM. We are all going to have varying ideas about what is and is not balanced, and we are not the ones you need to convince.

Were I your DM, I would rather you replace those things with something of a different flavor. So, you don't have the holy/religous flavor? You have a rougish/assasin feel? Then you get some abilities from the rogue. More Skill points/level, trapfinding, and perhaps some of those pathfinder rogue abilities.

Speaking of pathfinder, have you looked at what they did to the monk? I did not examine it closely, but it looked like flurry certainly improved.

Jay

 

[Voadam]

Another one was the monk in the Everquest RPG PH. IIRC the monk had 1/1 BAB and weak will saves. A lot more punch him in the face focus rather than funky taoist powers.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Another one was the monk in the Everquest RPG PH. IIRC the monk had 1/1 BAB and weak will saves. A lot more punch him in the face focus rather than funky taoist powers.

Would you do me a favor?

Could you give me the details of that class- Base class or PrCl, multiclassing restrictions, page reference- so I can add it to the database? I used to have the Everquest RPG, but I sold it long ago.