Mongoose exits 4E ?

[BryonD]

If 4E was released back in 2003 or 2004 (instead of 3.5E) with the same tougher 4E GSL and useless 4E SRD, would things be much different as today?

Obviously I can only guess, but I'd say that 4E would be 4E whenever you released it, so to some extent yes, it would be the same. But if it had been released when 3E was still popular rather than once it had run its course, I think the backlash against the change in style would have been even greater. And the anger at trying to kill the OGL movement when it was still really booming would have also been greater.

 

[Henry]

My personal opinion is that the Character builder has a LOT of pull, more than it's given credit for. Three points make that true in my opinion:

1. The GSL precludes any character builder for 4E other than the WotC one.

2. Most DMs on these forums (and in real life in the southeast that I've met through various conventions and gamedays) have stated electronic support as a major value-added service for both 3E and 4E to them.

3. The Character Builder is a GOOD, and CHEAP, piece of software. It didn't have to be the best character builder ever designed; it just had to be good, and it is - I would say, VERY good, but "good" was enough to make it important to the value-added service of electronic support, so imporant to most gamers with an online presence, it would seem.

As a result, by exclusion, and by being good enough to be very useful, it became a strong component for 3rd party support. Other factors do matter (for one WotC through DDI offering sufficient "3rd party support" for its own product), but the Character Builder itself has become a buzzword among 4E gamers. It's mentioned in all 4E podcasts I know of, it's mentioned in most forum posts between here, RPGnet, WotC forums, etc. -- it may not be the only reason 3pp are opting out of 4e, but it's a noteworthy mention among many gamers I'm hearing.

 

[ggroy]

Obviously I can only guess, but I'd say that 4E would be 4E whenever you released it, so to some extent yes, it would be the same. But if it had been released when 3E was still popular rather than once it had run its course, I think the backlash against the change in style would have been even greater. And the anger at trying to kill the OGL movement when it was still really booming would have also been greater.

I remember quite a number of players and DMs I knew at the time, were really angry at the release of the 3.5E core books back in 2003. Though none of them seemed to really care as much about the many 3PPs leaving the business. Not even the people who purchased tons of 3PP books.

I don't remember many people being really angry nor celebrating the demise of 3PP companies like Fast Forward, MonkeyGod, Bastion, Mystic Eye, etc ... I also don't remember many people who were "celebrating" that companies like Mongoose, Atlas, Fantasy Flight, Alderac, Avalanche, etc ... stopped producing more d20 supplement books.

Perhaps it's not too surprising that most of the anger was directed towards the 800 lbs gorilla (WotC), and not the "minion" followers (3PPs).

 

[wedgeski]

The GSL fiasco may very well have fretted away whatever goodwill WotC had with existing 3PPs.

I doubt goodwill has anything to do with it. If a free license and API was released for the Char Builder tomorrow, 3pp's would be mad not to jump on it. Anyone that turned their nose up because of they previously felt snubbed by the GSL situation would be a poor business-man.

 

[rjdafoe]

I suspect this was the case in the first year or so after 4E was first announced at gencon 2007. Several of the bigger 3PPs probably got fed up with sitting on their hands for the whole time, waiting for WotC to get their act together. Things may have possibly turned out quite differently if WotC didn't drop the ball early on.

I am not sure I buy this entirely. I think many of these companies would have taken advantage of the edition switch to grow their business beyond the scraps that WotC was thowing them. The OGL was way to open for them not to. I think even Piazo would still have their Pathfinder system. Some of them had their own version of a D20 system as well.

There is nothing wrong with that, but I think, even with the OGL left in for 4E, there would be a real big decline in 3pp for 4E. They would naturally make stuff for their own products first.

There is no real reason, in my mind, why Piazo can not produce an Adventure Path for 4E, no matter what they say to the public. they are (rightfully so) fully supporting their variant ruleset.

 

[TheNovaLord]

Mongoose are going "living" with traveller and runequest

might be one reason they are out of 4e

ive bought maybe only 6 4e items before i gave up on it

didnt get as far as buying the character builder either

im dabbling with pathfinder at the mo.

Mongoose Publishing is proud to announce that it will be launching its very own "LIVING CAMPAIGNS" in the summer of 2010 that of "Living Traveller" and "Living Glorantha".

We are striving hard to keep these campaigns as simple as possible in their implementation, without the need for players and games masters to constantly log in and register characters and equipment. Instead, we want to very much concentrate on the story lines for these settings, as there are big events coming up for both, and the "Living Campaigns" will put your characters front and centre.

Traveller - your characters will be party to huge events in the run up to the Fifth Frontier War and beyond. If you are attending Conception in January 2010, you will have a chance to take part in a dry run of "Living Traveller", as we confirm all the systems behind these campaigns with a view to launching both at Continuum in July 2010. From that point on, everyone is welcome to participate.

Runequest - is preparing for the end of the Second Age, and there will be plenty of material in "Living Glorantha" to take you there – you will be right in the front seat.

We are in the process of building up enough games master coverage to ensure these campaigns are run at all major conventions, but we also want to encourage participation at smaller events, stores, and at home too. Basically, no matter where you are or who you play with, you will have a chance to keep up with the campaigns. We are even looking at the potential for solo gamebooks that, when played through with your living characters, will count as scenarios in the larger campaign, so there will be all sorts of little bits and pieces you will have access to in order to fulfil your enjoyment of the entire campaign and give you a chance to get involved.

This may lead on other potential "Living Campaigns" - Living Mega-City One/Strontium Dog/Tragic Europe coming? The answer is that we have no solid plans as of yet, as we want to ensure all the core admin systems work with Traveller and Glorantha first.

Yours
"LIVING CAMPAIGNS"
Point of Contact

----====----
livingcampaigns @ mongoosepublishing.com

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Mongoose are going "living" with traveller and runequest

might be one reason they are out of 4e

ive bought maybe only 6 4e items before i gave up on it

didnt get as far as buying the character builder either

im dabbling with pathfinder at the mo.


[/COLOR]

Mongoose Living Campaign? Sounds interesting. Well, maybe not for me, I don't think I'll have the time for RPGs and it probably won't be very strong in Germany anyway, but still... Not bad for Traveller and Runequest fans!

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Conan?

I will be the first to agree that Mongoose has put out some subpar books, but Conan? Conan is a brilliant RPG, whose author displays a great love for and grasp of Howard's work. While it's true that the first edition was poorly edited, that hardly makes it 'garbage'.

Ken

Mike Mearls or not, most of Mongoose's work is utter garbage, from D&D to Conan to 2089 (WarMachones (sic) actually made it to a book spine, and the contents were from all directions). Editing, balance, design - all of it, poop.

 

[AllisterH]

I think so, but largely because you could likely port 3PP stuff into that theoretical character builder (this was the heyday of the OGL, after all). That said, I still think the real deal killer for 3PP content right now isn't the character builder (something that I am fairly certain is used only by a fraction of D&D players) but, rather, the GSL restrictions and the way that said license was horribly fumbled from day one.

I tend to disagree that WOTC would release an API for it. Remember, there's nothing in the original OGL that says WOTC has to put one outt here for the public.

If there was a 3e character builder and only WOTC splatbooks were added automatically to it, I think the 3pp would suffer a major hit.

In 3.x, there really wasn't no difference between a WOTC splatbook or a 3PP splatbook. For a group, what was the big incentive of using the WOTC one over the 3PP one? Nothing that I can see especially since all of the 3e splatbooks produced by WOTC never referenced other splatbooks.

 

[BryonD]

I remember quite a number of players and DMs I knew at the time, were really angry at the release of the 3.5E core books back in 2003.

I'm not disputing that. But I think a total abandonment of a still popular system would have generated even more hostility than the "money grab" re-boot.

Though none of them seemed to really care as much about the many 3PPs leaving the business. Not even the people who purchased tons of 3PP books.

I don't remember many people being really angry nor celebrating the demise of 3PP companies like Fast Forward, MonkeyGod, Bastion, Mystic Eye, etc ... I also don't remember many people who were "celebrating" that companies like Mongoose, Atlas, Fantasy Flight, Alderac, Avalanche, etc ... stopped producing more d20 supplement books.

I recall some people very clearly stating their disappointment over some of these. And I also recall more than a few "celebrations" of the demise of certain key offenders. I couldn't say of either group qualified as "many". Though I'm not following the ultimate relevance of your point here.