Mongoose in 2006 (and a bit on the Industry in General)

[Ranger REG]

Indeed. A LOTR RPG that was well-designed* and accurately reflected the source material would be a first, not a third.

*Apologies to Steve Long, as I would never lay Decpher's failings at his feet.

Don't worry. Steve left Decipher long ago for his dream job at Hero Games, but not before he completed and handed over his submitted draft work on LOTR RPG.

What I mean by "at the moment," the executive management at Decipher, who got into the game business making licensed CCGs, managed to scare away what's left of their RPG Studio folk (bulk of which were former Last Unicorn Games then WotC employees), and were the first to put not one line but two (albeit entire) RPG lines on hold until recently when they decided new supplements will not be released in print but in PDF.

Luckily, their own non-licensed WARS RPG line is being outsourced and designed by Mongoose.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Januray can't get here soon enough! I want the beans spilled already!

 

[jdrakeh]

Which is why I think it might be it, because that book has indeed been something of a 'holy grail', going for $100-300 on ebay or so.

Yeah, but it's been a 'holy grail' for collectors of RPGs, really (due to its rarity), not a huge draw for people who actually play them (in fact, the few non-collectors whom I've seen talk about the book were really unimpressed with it).

 

[Fighter1]

Well Matt you just shut down about a score of En World doomsday posters and half as many current threads talking about the same doom and gloom!! I hope this brings and end to those pessimists! :--)

Thanks!

 

[JoeGKushner]

Oh, I'm not talking about providing useful source info; they're far better than Decipher, certainly, seeing as they were not limited to just The Hobbit and LOTR. I just mean the system didn't reflect the source material accurately, IMO.

To do LOTR right, IMO, you need a system that, mechanically, gives Pippin as much value as Gandalf. Having magic be plot-driven would also be a plus. I.e., one should be able to replicate the Fellowship w/o essentially becoming: "Divine entity and epic-level PCs protect a bunch of 1st-level commoners from dying." The D&D-like systems used by MERP and Decipher's LOTR fail in this way, IMO.

Well, once again I think we're going to have to disagree as Pippin, to me, doesn't have as much value as Gandalf. Nor Strider. Nor Legollas. As a character he's important no doubt but in game mechanics? Part of the problem with trying to bring the mechanics of something where characters of various power levels are represented.

Happens all the time though. In Elric's world, outside of some main enemies, who else is even in his field? Certainly not Moonglum or the Red Archer.

 

[buzz]

Well, once again I think we're going to have to disagree as Pippin, to me, doesn't have as much value as Gandalf. Nor Strider. Nor Legollas. As a character he's important no doubt but in game mechanics?

But this is what I mean. If you measure value by "screen time", Pippin is just as important as Gandalf (or at least close). The fact that he can't fling spells or mow down orcs should not matter.

I mean, from some perspectives, Sam is the hero of LOTR. An accurate LOTR RPG needs to reflect this. It can't do that by being based on power; it needs to be based on story. What good is a LOTR rpg that relegates the main characters of the story, stats-wise, to 0-level cannon fodder? How they supposed to participate at all?

LOTR needs something akin to the Buffy RPG. I.e., it needs to balance the White Hats (the hobbits) with the Heroes (Gandalf et al).

 

[Ranger REG]

I mean, from some perspectives, Sam is the hero of LOTR. An accurate LOTR RPG needs to reflect this. It can't do that by being based on power; it needs to be based on story. What good is a LOTR rpg that relegates the main characters of the story, stats-wise, to 0-level cannon fodder? How they supposed to participate at all?

LOTR needs something akin to the Buffy RPG. I.e., it needs to balance the White Hats (the hobbits) with the Heroes (Gandalf et al).

Some, but Samwise is not the only hero of LOTR. What Sam or his player did is roleplay which you cannot translate into stats.

Granted, he has to be tough enough to ward off Shelob, though an artifact like Sting usually helps. As well as rescue Frodo from the lair of orcs and uruk-hai. If you ask me, they're full of lucks. Throw in some action points to add more bonus to one's roll, and you get the hobbits.

 

[JoeGKushner]

But this is what I mean. If you measure value by "screen time", Pippin is just as important as Gandalf (or at least close). The fact that he can't fling spells or mow down orcs should not matter.

I mean, from some perspectives, Sam is the hero of LOTR. An accurate LOTR RPG needs to reflect this. It can't do that by being based on power; it needs to be based on story. What good is a LOTR rpg that relegates the main characters of the story, stats-wise, to 0-level cannon fodder? How they supposed to participate at all?

LOTR needs something akin to the Buffy RPG. I.e., it needs to balance the White Hats (the hobbits) with the Heroes (Gandalf et al).

And how does Buffy do that? It's a game system I'm not familiar with so would be interested in hearing about it. Perhaps a thread in general since we've pretty much derailed this one?

 

[buzz]

Some, but Samwise is not the only hero of LOTR. What Sam or his player did is roleplay which you cannot translate into stats.

You can, though. In D&D, the first orc adept or sorcerer with an area effect spell would have killed all the hobbits in a single attack. Likewise, Sam would have been dead meat if he actually lived long enough to make it to Shelob.

In a more narrative system, Sam would have been able use Dramatic Editing or Plot Points.

 

[buzz]

And how does Buffy do that? It's a game system I'm not familiar with so would be interested in hearing about it. Perhaps a thread in general since we've pretty much derailed this one?

You should maybe just read some reviews at RPG.net. Basically, while a big part of Buffy is ass-kicking, a similarly big part is just narrative play. E.g., White Hats have more Drama Points than Heroes, which they can use for actions like "I Think I'm Okay", which halves the damage you've taken, etc.

Without a dramatic mechanic like this, Xander would die in episode one.