JohnNephew
First Post
Wulf Ratbane said:
It was coined by Bruce Bethke, the title of a story he wrote which was published in Amazing Stories in 1983 (when the magazine was owned by TSR, in fact).
Mongoose's Cyberpunk? Details anyone?
- Thread starter Dread0395
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It was coined by Bruce Bethke, the title of a story he wrote which was published in Amazing Stories in 1983 (when the magazine was owned by TSR, in fact).
Ranger REG
Explorer
So now what? We can't call the genre "cyberp-" ... err, the "C" word because if we do, we owe R. Talsorian a penny when we're not officially endorsing their product. What proper name we can give this genre type?
JohnNephew
First Post
> Amen, brother. I haven't bought an R Talsorian product since I found out
> they did this... and I was heavy into Castle Falkenstein at the time. In my
> opinion this is intellectual plagiarism, taking (financial) credit for an idea that
> they didn't originate.
Huh. Well, I'd have to disagree pretty strongly.
To use a non-Cyberpunk example, suppose I came out with a new "Sword & Sorcery" line of RPG products. Don't you suppose White Wolf would have an issue with that? And legitimately so? Well, they certainly didn't create the term "Sword & Sorcery" -- the term has been used for a subgenre of fantasy literature since at least the 1930's, hasn't it? But they've carved out an identity within the category of roleplaying games, using that title as a brand and trademark -- SWORD & SORCERY in big type on the covers of their D20 line.
If I slapped a "SWORD & SORCERY" in big type on top of an RPG product in the market today, the odds are good that some consumers (and distributors and retailers) would be confused and might misidentify the product as being from White Wolf, when it's not. Avoiding that sort of confusion is precisely what trademarks and trademark law are concerned with.
> they did this... and I was heavy into Castle Falkenstein at the time. In my
> opinion this is intellectual plagiarism, taking (financial) credit for an idea that
> they didn't originate.
Huh. Well, I'd have to disagree pretty strongly.
To use a non-Cyberpunk example, suppose I came out with a new "Sword & Sorcery" line of RPG products. Don't you suppose White Wolf would have an issue with that? And legitimately so? Well, they certainly didn't create the term "Sword & Sorcery" -- the term has been used for a subgenre of fantasy literature since at least the 1930's, hasn't it? But they've carved out an identity within the category of roleplaying games, using that title as a brand and trademark -- SWORD & SORCERY in big type on the covers of their D20 line.
If I slapped a "SWORD & SORCERY" in big type on top of an RPG product in the market today, the odds are good that some consumers (and distributors and retailers) would be confused and might misidentify the product as being from White Wolf, when it's not. Avoiding that sort of confusion is precisely what trademarks and trademark law are concerned with.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Prior use can prevent the issue of a Patent. (So no patent on religion. While you can copyright the word God you would gain no benefit there from, you would have to prove injury to your I.P. which is not likely under any circumstances, and in the State of New York would likely be deemed 'frivolous'', and render you liable for all court costs. As for Trademark, before the TM was granted it would face a board of review, and likely fail, you would however still be liable for the processing fee. Go for it, I am waiting... 
)
Prior use does not prevent the issuance of either a Trademark, nor a Copyright. If you take a look at folk music you will see that matter brought up numerous times, with the Copyright holder winning every time. As for the term Cyberpunk, there was a bit of arbitration necessary between R. Talsorian and Game Designers Workshop over the use of the term Cyberpunk in the Cyberpunk - EuroSource sourcebook for 2300 A.D . I forget how the arbitration turned out, but the abitrator was Lynn Willis of Chaosium Inc.
The Auld Grump IANQAL
)Prior use does not prevent the issuance of either a Trademark, nor a Copyright. If you take a look at folk music you will see that matter brought up numerous times, with the Copyright holder winning every time. As for the term Cyberpunk, there was a bit of arbitration necessary between R. Talsorian and Game Designers Workshop over the use of the term Cyberpunk in the Cyberpunk - EuroSource sourcebook for 2300 A.D . I forget how the arbitration turned out, but the abitrator was Lynn Willis of Chaosium Inc.
The Auld Grump IANQAL
johnnype
First Post
I don't know the first thing about laws, patents or copyrights but Mongoose is NOT doing themselves any favors by not clarifying the issue. The fact that they have not come out and explained what this product is all about frankly reaks of a marketing ploy. Mongoose needs to get their act together and give it to us strait. These incomplete press releases smack of misinformation. It doesn't speak well of the company.
storyguide3
First Post
johnnype said:
What excatly do they need to clarify? Its an OGL-only, full RPG using the d20 system (but without the d20 logo) to allow play in a cyberpunk genre world. If there are issues over the tradmark of cyberpunk by R. Talsorian, they are between the two companies. It has nothing to do with us. If the game actually had anything to do with RT's Cyberpunk game, they would have said so as it would not benefit them otherwise.
I don't know what your beef is with Mongoose, but the attitude in your post seems needlessly beligerent. Is there something that you feel Mongoose owes us by way of explaining tyheir game? Should we be privy to their legal consultations?
TheAuldGrump
First Post
storyguide3 said:
In any event there is also the possibility that Gaming Reports may have gotten some things wrong. It is also possible (probable even) that even if the product is under the working title of D20 Cyberpunk that it will have the title changed before press time. I suspect that this latter is the most likely case. I do not think that Mongoose is staffed by incompetents, the occassional incomplete OGL section aside. (Ultimate Guides mostly, and Mongoose did apologize to the concerned parties.)
In any event, Mongoose has been a busy bunch of beavers, and deserve a certain level of respect for their consistent efforts.
The Auld Grump, who didn't find any announcement about this product on the Mongoose site
EarthsShadow
First Post
Well, I hope Mongoose sheds some light soon but either way I won't be buying this book because it's too expensive for the amount of pages they are putting into it, like their Armageddon and B5 books. Way to much money for my taste. It's for this fact that I haven't bought any of their books in a year.
As far as Cyberpunk goes...they might as well change the name, but I don't know what a good name will be. Cyberpunk as a word tells us everything we need or want to really know about the genre they are creating. They could call it Cyber d20, but that name bites. Calling it CyberWorld d20 would also bite. CyberHeroes, naaa, to lame. If they have a specific world setting along with the cybernetics heavy theme, then they could call it by the world name and label it 'a CyberGenre campaign setting for d20' or something like that.
And maybe, just maybe, they already have an agreement with RT and they just didn't tell us about it. We, as we know, don't know the full amount of details in this situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have an agreement of some kind with RT.
As far as Cyberpunk goes...they might as well change the name, but I don't know what a good name will be. Cyberpunk as a word tells us everything we need or want to really know about the genre they are creating. They could call it Cyber d20, but that name bites. Calling it CyberWorld d20 would also bite. CyberHeroes, naaa, to lame. If they have a specific world setting along with the cybernetics heavy theme, then they could call it by the world name and label it 'a CyberGenre campaign setting for d20' or something like that.
And maybe, just maybe, they already have an agreement with RT and they just didn't tell us about it. We, as we know, don't know the full amount of details in this situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have an agreement of some kind with RT.
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