D&D 3E/3.5 Monk 3.5

[Victim]

My point is, don't kid yourself and play your role. Help the rogue flank, chase down a spell-caster, or disarm/grapple/trip/stun someone. Don't try and stand your ground and make full attacks (ala Fighter or Barbarian) because you don't have the hp or the attack bonus to make it worthwhile (except against mooks, which you can pretty much do ANYTHING and have the fight go well).

Disarm: opposed attack roll. Monks have medium attack bonus, putting them at a disadvantage. Using fists to Disarm sucks because of weapon size bonuses. So, of the monk weapons, the best option for disarming is to use the quarterstaff in 2 hands. STR based.

Grapple: opposed STR+bab+size check. STR based.

Tripping: STR+size check. STR based

Of your skirmishing monk options, all of them except Stunning Fist are better for a STR based monk. And a STR based monk probably doesn't stun too much worse than a DEX one (they're the same, assuming a 1 for 1 stat swap). He'll still have Tumble, which usually isn't that hard to raise, so he can easily move to a flanking position. And there's the difference in damage. Keep your options open, and all that.

 

[Legildur]

Strength versus Dex based monk? Two words - Damage Reduction. Show me a Dex based monk that can penetrate the majority of damage reductions.

However, that being said, the Dex based monk in our cmapaign (about 14th level) is performing well with a decent AC. He still misses a lot with his flurry, but is highly mobile and has a lot of fun. It's just that a Stremgth based monk would perform better.

 

[Dracandross]

I'm wondering why githzerai is then so good monk race as it gives +dex. If str monk is so much better why not half-ogre is not doable (well they get some -stats) but at least they'd really go for the str part. Of course being large isnt that good as theres always nice ways to get it on.

-Dracandross

 

[Pagan priest]

Strength versus Dex based monk? Two words - Damage Reduction. Show me a Dex based monk that can penetrate the majority of damage reductions.

However, that being said, the Dex based monk in our cmapaign (about 14th level) is performing well with a decent AC. He still misses a lot with his flurry, but is highly mobile and has a lot of fun. It's just that a Stremgth based monk would perform better.

Well, how about all of them? 4th level - ki strike (magic), 10th level - ki strike (lawful), and 16th level - ki strike (adamantine). Bye bye DR.

WRT the ogre minions mentioned earlier...
A dex monk with a dex of 18, 10 str 10 con can singlehandedly fight and kill the ogre, even before taking into account any feats, gear or buffs. Once you build it up as a real character, should be able to finish the ogre after 2 rounds of flurry and be ready to move on.

 

[Nail]

A dex monk with a dex of 18, 10 str 10 con can singlehandedly fight and kill the ogre, even before taking into account any feats, gear or buffs. .

A Dex-based Commoner could singlehandedly fight and kill an ogre too.....

You are leaving out some important bits in your assertion. Let's see 'em.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well, how about all of them? 4th level - ki strike (magic), 10th level - ki strike (lawful), and 16th level - ki strike (adamantine). Bye bye DR.

You are missing some important DRs, like "silver", "cold iron", "good", "evil", "chaotic", "epic" and (lest we forget) "-".

Sometimes a monk just has to do a boat load of damage to beat DR, and a str monk is better at that.

 

[Franky]

Apologies to the OP for Hijacking his thread BUT .. I have to say,
that at the weekend I took out my small DEX based Monk for a spin around the block ....

You can keep your STR stats and figures..
you can argue till you go blue about tripping and stunning and grappling
you can certainly and permanently keep your damn half-Orcs !!

it was THE most fun and enjoyable bit of role-play I have encountered ...

so my advice, Build for fun and frolics ... don't just add up the numbers (they suck anyways )

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, how about all of them? 4th level - ki strike (magic), 10th level - ki strike (lawful), and 16th level - ki strike (adamantine). Bye bye DR.

I know that Particle_man has already said it, but it bears repeating - the *vast majority* of the significant DR types that you will come up against, you can't touch. (DR/magic is hardly significant since magic weapons are available like candy, at a mere 2000gp. It would be rather hard to find a typical 4th level fighting character without at least a +1 weapon of some type)

silver or cold iron required? good or evil required? piercing or slashing required?

DR/lawful seems to be required for two kinds of Slaad and that's it, from my cursory glance through the monster manual. So that plus the ability to knock down doors, walls and golems at 16th level. Hardly impressive.

Monte Cook's 'oathbound' (monk like characters) had a slightly more useful ability to ignore an increasing amount of any damage resistance with increasing level. But that's not monks!

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I know that Particle_man has already said it, but it bears repeating - the *vast majority* of the significant DR types that you will come up against, you can't touch. (DR/magic is hardly significant since magic weapons are available like candy, at a mere 2000gp. It would be rather hard to find a typical 4th level fighting character without at least a +1 weapon of some type)

silver or cold iron required? good or evil required? piercing or slashing required?

Let's see what I recall...

There's a feat in PHB2 that allows a monk to switch his Unarmed Strike damage from bludgeoning to slashing to piercing, but only once/round, though that's not a big deal. It's definitely a useful feat to try and fit in for a monk concentrated on Unarmed Strikes. Also, at least one magic item can do that, too, and the Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries PrC from Draconomicon lets you do slashing. (Though you save that for epic levels, to get the increased damage dice after monk's has capped...)

One can try and take Ki Strike (Holy) from BoED, but that 15 Charisma preq means only the most attribute-gifted monk ever will take it.

Henshin Mystic *can* provide Ki Strike/Good or Evil if you already have Ki Strike/Lawful when you get to that level. Of course, you also have to find the issue of Dragon with the 3.5 conversion of Oriental Adventures. But it is a good PrC.

The Shen PrC family from the Dark Sun issue of Dragon does provide Ki Strike/Silver and /Cold Iron as an ability, but you'll lose the /Adamantine Ki Strike. They're otherwise very good PrCs.

I believe there's a substitution level from the Planar Handbook that lets the monk switch out Ki Strike/Adamantine for /Cold Iron. Honestly, I'm not sure that's a good trade, even in a heavily Abyssal game.

Brad

 

[the Lorax]

Fun with monks

You really have to decide what type of Monk you want to be.

Are you looking for Pure Monk fun?
Are you looking for Monk + Spellcasting?
Are you looking something else?​

When I look at monk and the biggest thing I see is mobility - not the feat, but the ability to get to anywhere on the battlefield.

Around behind the bad guys
Into the middle of the bad guys
Chasing down fleeing bad guys
Engaging enemy spellcasters/archers on the hill​

This to me means that you are going to spend a lot of time in unsupported melee situations.
I'd like to, in that case max your Dex, Wis and Con. If you're stuck with an elite array, (something that isn't very kind to Monks) I would go:

Str 12 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8
+1 Dex at 4
+1 Con at 8
+1 Str at 12,16​

Level 1, I would use as Rogue 1 (repeat with me as a mantra..."4x8=32...4x8=32...4x8=32"), then advance as a Monk from there. Your mobility and iffy strength make the potential +1d6 sneak attack useful. Lots of skill points lets you get at least a modest start on a fair number of skills. You also widen up your weapon selection quite a bit.

Monks are always short of feats, and your modest Int can use any skill point help it can get. So unless you have some compelling reason not to be, be Human. This is a discussion on pure mechanics, yes?

Ok, Feats.
Bonus Monk Feats - Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes
Forget Grapple. Grappling is no fun. Not for the players, and not for the DM.
Deflect Arrows is very nice, but 1 - you should be in melee, 2 - the arrow will just wind up sticking out of the mage instead after the first shot.

Other Feats - in no particular order

Improved Natural Attack
Weapon Focus
Dodge-Mobility -Spring Attack (group purchase only)
Improved Critical
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse (with these stats, beats Weapon Focus - fist)
Power Attack-Cleave (at 12 or higher)
Lobby to use other sources for feats​

I've seen some other comments here about the advantage of using a reach weapon. Do so if at all possible, fortuneately, your Rogue 1 gives you proficiency in 1 reach weapon, Long Spear. Ply your DM with movies like "Troy" and "300" so that your DM gets to see lots of spear fighting.

That should get you started being a crazy spear wielding but kicker.