Monk feedback requested

[GunbladeKnight]

-level 20 ability is still a trap

Because they become immune to resurrection or because they become immune to Enlarge Person? In my version, size is not as important since most of their damage would be the Masterful Strike, which wouldn't increase with size.

-monk still isn't proficient with unarmed strikes (lol)

I figured that it was implied or inherent that they were. Should I put it in anyways?

Like Dandu said, their BAB is what really kills them along with their lack of abilities.

It seems everyone agrees with giving them full BAB, so I'll consider it. Would it be prudent to keep the -2 throughout the entire flurry then instead of removing it?

[MENTION=6673175]xigbar[/MENTION]: Their first level ability, Zen Strike, replaces their STR with WIS for purposes of attack and damage rolls.

As for the slow fall, I don't want to give them straight up feather fall (ring is cheap if they REALLY want it), but it goes with the flavor that they can jump around and not break their legs. Should I just say it reduces damage by 5/10ft per monk level and not have any more requirements (probably calling it graceful landing or something instead then).

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION]: They have Concentration (meditation) and Knowledge(history) as class skills. I suppose I can put Decipher Script (copying scripture) in there as well. But I'm sure you know I meant more of a Liu Kang/Dhalsim type monk.
And even if they have good saves, there is still that 5% chance they could catch a disease or succumb to poison. Does that matter?

 

[Talonblaze]

Because they become immune to resurrection or because they become immune to Enlarge Person? In my version, size is not as important since most of their damage would be the Masterful Strike, which wouldn't increase with size.

I figured that it was implied or inherent that they were. Should I put it in anyways?

Monk's aren't immune to Resurrection, that much is noted. But just about any useful spell, ability or effect that helps humanoids is negated. There aren't many beneficial spells aimed towards outsiders so its more of a hindrance.

And the 'proficiency' thing is just to kill any rules lawyers since yes, there are people who are that serious about such. (Even though the RAW aspect still fights such interpretation.)

 

[Dandu]

Because they become immune to resurrection or because they become immune to Enlarge Person? In my version, size is not as important since most of their damage would be the Masterful Strike, which wouldn't increase with size.

But I'm sure you know I meant more of a Liu Kang/Dhalsim type monk.

I'm just pointing out that when you (and D&D in general) says "monk" they mean "martial artist". And it's a tad silly, because not even most Chinese monks know kung fu.

And even if they have good saves, there is still that 5% chance they could catch a disease or succumb to poison. Does that matter?

It might be more useful to have an ability more like the effect from Steadfast Determination which prevents you from failing a fort save on a natural one.

 

[kitcik]

Allow me to be blunt: the problem with these abilities in the original monk class was that they were useless.

Not to mention every ability they get above 13th level - so 14th is a trap!

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: A monk may fly as the Fly spell for a number of rounds equal to his ranks in the Jump skill. This ability is usable 3 + Wis mod times per day.

This would be nice.


Really, you need BAB, improved natural attack as a bonus feat, then make a superior version on top of that to get another size increment. You need to be able to add weapons to the monk exotic list. And a lot more.

Honestly, and believe me I love anyone who tries to boost my favorite fluff class, your current version is not as good as a RAW monk with appropriate substitution levels (gaining invisibility and constant 100% concealment).

 

[Dandu]

Those are actually rather nice ACFs.

Wall Walker ACF from Dungeonscape (replaces Slow Fall) is also nice. Not super useful, but considering what it replaces...

 

[HoboGod]

Aye, a monk is only good for it's first level to be mixed with Ascetic Rogue, Ascetic Hunter, Ascetic Knight, or Ascetic Stalker. Anyone who takes monk past 2nd level tends to be the kind of player that brings down the group's Party Level when the DM must choose appropriate level encounters.

 

[Nezkrul]

straight monk might give some problems, but a sacred fist build is rock solid

 

[GunbladeKnight]

All right, so due to current feedback, this is what I'm doing:
Remove Perfect Body
Remove Purity of Body (also Still Mind/Diamond Body?)
Give them full BAB (but keeping a -2 on flurry)
Adding unarmed strike to proficiency list
No special requirements to use Slow Fall (Again, the ring is cheap enough if they want it)

Other things I'm considering:
Make Wholeness of body Wis x Monk Level, is this too much healing?
Giving them Leap of the Heavens or an ability to jump around

EDIT: How about giving them Mettle mid-level?
EDITx2: Giving them some ability similar to Iaijutsu for Concentration checks?

Things I would like to hear input on:
Masterful Strike vs. Unarmed Damage progression
The reworked flurry, as well as the mobile attacker abilities
Blade Catch and Improved Stunning Fist

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Wholeness of body really should be Wis mod x Monk level, just like a Paladin's Lay on Hands except trading the Cha for Wis and not allowing it to heal others.

You might want to make the AC bonus just an unnamed one. The reasoning behind that is there are certain abilities and conditions besides Flat-Footed that deny a Dex bonus, which in turn denies the Dodge bonus too. Just keep the standard Monk text on this one, but instead of the AC bonus being 1/4 Monk level, it's 1/2.

Give the Monk the ability to use his Wis mod in place of (or on top of) his Con mod for Concentration checks later on if you intent to make use of Concentration.

Zen Strike makes for an insane dip if a different Wis-based class wants to become SAD, and restricting it to being unarmored, etc wouldn't help in this regard. Druids would most definitely take a level or two just to get all the bonuses.

Masterful Strike is a bit like Sneak attack, and I'm not sure whether the ability to use it in more circumstances trumps the actual damage that would be gained. If I read it right, it's 5D6 damage at level 20. Any unarmed combatant worth his salt would have far more damage than that by 20, AND it can crit. I'd suggest you give an unarmed progression too.

Evasion AND Mettle? On a class with entirely Good saves? That's pushing it. Keep it to one or the other.

Appending Perfect Body to allow beneficial spells to affect him but negative ones is probably cheesy, and since that'd be the only way to fix it I'd suggest dropping it.

Keep Diamond Body. I've seen plenty of high Fort characters fail their saves on poisons, especially against Con damage ones. It sucks, and having outright immunity to that is a good thing.

Blade Catch is quite powerful if it disarms the attacker outright. If you want to keep that in place somehow, perhaps add in "If your opposed attack roll beats your opponent's by 10 or more, you disarm the weapon used in the attack." Keep in mind that disarming an opponent while you're unarmed means you're now holding the weapon, although dropping the weapon is a free action as I recall.

Come to think of it, your Monk's 1st level grants 3 feats outright, two of which are gained without needing prerequisites. Other 1st level abilities are even better than feats.

 

[GunbladeKnight]

Is the AC bonus being dodge a problem with uncanny dodge and later the improved version?

Does anyone know off hand how much Iaijutsu does based on result?

I'll let the rules lawyers argue whether Zen Strike affects natural attacks, but wouldn't most later wild shapes have a higher STR bonus anyways? It wouldn't affect touch or ranged touch spells, either.

Yes Masterful Strike is similar to precision based damage, but it affects creatures immune to critical hits, and doesn't require someone to be flat-footed/flanked. If I give them unarmed progression, what would be the better rate?

Mettle would likely be gained after level 10, but for the cost of Still Mind, Purity of Body, and Diamond Body. Unless someone has anything against Diamond Body, I'll keep that and forgo mettle.

Should I drop the first level choice bonus feat, or drop the requirement of stunning fist for blade catch (and ki blast altogether) and make it a choice feat? Also, I made blade catch when it was still 3/4 BAB, and with the boost to AC it made me question why a monk would use it in the first place (was debating whether i should make it like wall of blades, but decided to go the disarm route).