Michael Morris
First Post
bebo said:
Care to elaborate?
Monk PrC
- Thread starter Technik4
- Start date
Care to elaborate?
I like it, definitely consolidates my ideas into one unified theme, as Khorod was advising me. I like the synergy between spells and fists, but I do bemoan the loss of the Ki Strike. Even with a spell charged, your BAB may be too low to hit, and in cases where you do, you may not penetrate DR. Also, escape artist might be an OK addition to their skill list, which is rather small.
Another thing, is the BAB supposed to add up to +8?
Well, for the last couple days I had been reasoning that my ideas need to be split into 2 prestige classes, one focused on the arcane, one more focused on intrigue and stealth.
Listral Spy
Not all monastaries devoted to Tia Listral have managed a smooth merging of the arcane and the body, some have learned to rely on stealth, their own sense of guile and charm, and a veil of secrecy. These agents serve the will of their superiors at the monastary, and some have been imbedded deep within noble houses and society at large...though few suspect this.
Hit Die: D6
Requirements:
BAB: +4
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Move Silently 5 ranks.
Feats: Inconspicuous*, Unarmed Strike
Special: You must vow to never again use a weapon other than yourself. Your body or your own ki must win the day, not material objects.
Inconspicuous [Feat]
You can blend in with the crowd, and know how to make yourself easily overlooked.
Benefit: Bluff and Disguise are always class skills for you.
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Perform (Cha), Pick Pockets (Dex), Profession (Wis), Read Lips (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at each Level: 4+INT
Lvl Att Frt Ref Wll Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Monk Abilities, Uncanny Dodge
2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Sneak Attack +1d6
3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Spy Secret
4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +2d6
5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Ki Fist +1, Spy Secret
6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Sneak Attack +3d6
7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Ki Fist +2, Spy Secret
8 +6 +2 +6 +6 Sneak Attack +4d6
9 +6 +3 +6 +6 Ki Fist +3, Spy Secret
10 +7 +3 +7 +7 Sneak Attack +5d6
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies (And Restrictions): A Listral Spy gains no new weapon proficiencies, but does gain Light Armor Profiiciency and Proficiency with Bucklers. Donning armor may negate some bonuses (See Monk Abilities) but there is no penalty, immediately upon removing the offending garment, all monk abilities return.
Monk Abilities: Whenever determining bonus speed, AC, or unarmed damage add levels in this prestige class to your monk levels. Your unarmed rate of attack is calculated by adding your monk BAB to your Listral Spy BAB. These monk abilities function in light armor, but previous monk abilities (Such as Stunning Attack, Flurry of Blows, etc) are subject to the armor clause as stated in the PHB.
Uncanny Dodge: Stack all levels of Rogue and Listral Spy to determine total Uncanny Dodge abilities.
Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability in the phb.
Spy Secret: Choose 1 of the following abilities:
-Common Look: When making a skill check with Bluff or Disguise the Listral Spy may take 10, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She becomes so certain in her skill that she can use these skills reliably even under adverse conditions.
-Hidden Agent: When making a skill check with Hide or Move Silently the Listral Spy may take 10, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She becomes so certain in her skill that she can use these skills reliably even under adverse conditions.
-Hide in Plain View (Su): Listral Spies can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as they are within 10 feet of someone else to hide behind, Listral Spies can hide themselves from view in the open without anything else to hide behind. They cannot, however, hide behind themselves.
-Improved Evasion: As the rogue ability.
-Listralan Feint: You may feint as a move-equivelent action instead of a standard action, but doing so incurs a -4 penalty to your bluff check.
Ki Fist: Your fists are imbued with your own ki. They are treated as a magical weapon of the listed bonus in all respects except that they may not be sundered or disarmed.
My first attempt at a rogue/monk prc, tell me what you think. It is decidedly Charisma-flavored, so sorceror levels would add some flair, but they are more political spies and assasins than they are magicians.
Technik
Another thing, is the BAB supposed to add up to +8?
Well, for the last couple days I had been reasoning that my ideas need to be split into 2 prestige classes, one focused on the arcane, one more focused on intrigue and stealth.
Listral Spy
Not all monastaries devoted to Tia Listral have managed a smooth merging of the arcane and the body, some have learned to rely on stealth, their own sense of guile and charm, and a veil of secrecy. These agents serve the will of their superiors at the monastary, and some have been imbedded deep within noble houses and society at large...though few suspect this.
Hit Die: D6
Requirements:
BAB: +4
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Move Silently 5 ranks.
Feats: Inconspicuous*, Unarmed Strike
Special: You must vow to never again use a weapon other than yourself. Your body or your own ki must win the day, not material objects.
Inconspicuous [Feat]
You can blend in with the crowd, and know how to make yourself easily overlooked.
Benefit: Bluff and Disguise are always class skills for you.
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Perform (Cha), Pick Pockets (Dex), Profession (Wis), Read Lips (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at each Level: 4+INT
Lvl Att Frt Ref Wll Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Monk Abilities, Uncanny Dodge
2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Sneak Attack +1d6
3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Spy Secret
4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +2d6
5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Ki Fist +1, Spy Secret
6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Sneak Attack +3d6
7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Ki Fist +2, Spy Secret
8 +6 +2 +6 +6 Sneak Attack +4d6
9 +6 +3 +6 +6 Ki Fist +3, Spy Secret
10 +7 +3 +7 +7 Sneak Attack +5d6
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies (And Restrictions): A Listral Spy gains no new weapon proficiencies, but does gain Light Armor Profiiciency and Proficiency with Bucklers. Donning armor may negate some bonuses (See Monk Abilities) but there is no penalty, immediately upon removing the offending garment, all monk abilities return.
Monk Abilities: Whenever determining bonus speed, AC, or unarmed damage add levels in this prestige class to your monk levels. Your unarmed rate of attack is calculated by adding your monk BAB to your Listral Spy BAB. These monk abilities function in light armor, but previous monk abilities (Such as Stunning Attack, Flurry of Blows, etc) are subject to the armor clause as stated in the PHB.
Uncanny Dodge: Stack all levels of Rogue and Listral Spy to determine total Uncanny Dodge abilities.
Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability in the phb.
Spy Secret: Choose 1 of the following abilities:
-Common Look: When making a skill check with Bluff or Disguise the Listral Spy may take 10, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She becomes so certain in her skill that she can use these skills reliably even under adverse conditions.
-Hidden Agent: When making a skill check with Hide or Move Silently the Listral Spy may take 10, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She becomes so certain in her skill that she can use these skills reliably even under adverse conditions.
-Hide in Plain View (Su): Listral Spies can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as they are within 10 feet of someone else to hide behind, Listral Spies can hide themselves from view in the open without anything else to hide behind. They cannot, however, hide behind themselves.
-Improved Evasion: As the rogue ability.
-Listralan Feint: You may feint as a move-equivelent action instead of a standard action, but doing so incurs a -4 penalty to your bluff check.
Ki Fist: Your fists are imbued with your own ki. They are treated as a magical weapon of the listed bonus in all respects except that they may not be sundered or disarmed.
My first attempt at a rogue/monk prc, tell me what you think. It is decidedly Charisma-flavored, so sorceror levels would add some flair, but they are more political spies and assasins than they are magicians.
Technik
Michael Morris
First Post
Technik4 said:
With the enchanted fist ability the character should not have problems penatrating DR. If you take the Energy substitution feat from Tome & Blood and the Yarenic's Flame Weapon spell that combination alone builds up a character with the ability to make their fists deal the damage type best suited to any situation. Greater Magic weapon insures that there is no plus based DR that the character won't be able to bypass, and once material based DR's appear in 3.5e I'm sure that a character of this class could make a 3rd or 4th level spell to polymorph his hands into just the right material. Never forget that the spell ability of the class itself is a potent weapon. Who needs the quivering palm ability when, eventually, you can use finger of death.
When I set up the skills I was trying to stick to the essentials for each of the two source classes and stay with a sorcerer's 2 skills / level. That alone constrains how many skills the character has.
Yes. That BAB is not a typo. It was first used in Sword & Fist. Since there isn't a +0 entry to start it helps keep the character's BAB within 1 of what a normal monk's BAB would be.
Well, for the last couple days I had been reasoning that my ideas need to be split into 2 prestige classes, one focused on the arcane, one more focused on intrigue and stealth.
The class smells like ninja. It's fine on its own merits, but it's getting out of the focus area of the campaign setting itself. The Listralans are not assassins out for hire. They are a reclusive bunch who would be happy to be left alone. The order does not condone or engage in affairs of this world - they are preoccupied in self perfection for the next. While having a monk / sorcerer prestige class is fine since it can meld into this self perfection goal - albeit with a new twist. Sort of like oranges and grapefruit. But branching out to an spy class is not in the spirt of the Listralan order, and since their order is the only one with the monk class this precludes the inclusion of this prestige class into the Dusk setting (At least officially. You can use it with your own games if you like of course).
Khorod
First Post
Hm. One thing to remember is that religions tend to form splinters. Heretic movements.
Perhaps in the setting there could be a group of 'Listralans' who broke away, and determined that before their own enlightenment can be pursued, they stability of the surrounding world must be repaired. Over time, they can shift slightly and feel a need to subtely manipulate the world around them for some small degree of self-benefit.
Of course, such a group sounds like a nice NPC villain organization for a party of young Listralans...
Perhaps in the setting there could be a group of 'Listralans' who broke away, and determined that before their own enlightenment can be pursued, they stability of the surrounding world must be repaired. Over time, they can shift slightly and feel a need to subtely manipulate the world around them for some small degree of self-benefit.
Of course, such a group sounds like a nice NPC villain organization for a party of young Listralans...
Michael Morris
First Post
Khorod said:
Maybe so. However, let me again repeat myself - the Listralan order's association with the monk class was coined as a way to allow the class to have a place in the campaign. Personally I would have rathered the monk not have been in the PHB at all because they have no place in European legends and adventures. Their place is in Oriental Adventures. That is my opinion on that matter.
Early in the setup of Dusk 3e I decided that I would make it possible to use as much of the PHB as possible while keeping the setting to its early medieval tech level and theme. For the longest time I thought the monk class would have to be discarded in its entirety until someone ( I forget who ) mentioned they would be an excellent match for the Listralans. After much personal debate I agreed, so the Listralans gave the monks a window into the setting that makes sense and doesn't add too much of an oriental influence.
Adding a single monk based prestige class built upon something I had mentioned in passing is one thing, but coining multiple monk prestige classes is quite another. Further, the Listralans are not an organization of widespread influence and power. The Estarian cell *might* number a hundred. The Telzoan cell is slightly larger at 150. This is not a group that has the resources to lead widespread innuendos. A single Listralan might act as a spy, but their is no group of them that acts so.
That is how I feel. If you wish to add them to your game, then do so - It's not my place to try to stop you. It is my place, however, to decide what is and is not appropriate for the setting as presented on the website. I try to keep an open mind to new ideas, but sometimes I have to act as filter and say no - even though I find this task unpleasant.
Too many times settings have been diluted and robbed of focus by the very groups that loved them too much. The Forgotten Realms is the worst offender in this manner, followed quickly by Greyhawk. With two well made poupouri worlds available, I do not feel it necessary to build a third.
While I realize that this sometimes autocratic attitude of mine has turned many people away from writing for the setting, it may be - for better or worse - the setting's only unique trait for one its size: It is guided by a single person and not by a committee.
Michael: I respect your reasons. I was sort of going for the angle Khorod mentioned, a sect of monks that noone realized was even there, but it is not a necessary thing for a campaign like dusk.
I was wondering if you had any input on this feat:
Zen Prodigy [Feat]
You possess an exceptional gift for the martial arts.
Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus AC from wisdom and the saving throw DCs of special monk abilities (Stunning Attack and Quivering Palm) treat your Wisdom as 2 points higher than its actual value.
Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st level character. You can take this feat even if you dont have any monk levels yet.
I can't say I really created it, as it is based off of Spell Prodigy, but it would give monks a feat for their own in dusk.
Technik
I was wondering if you had any input on this feat:
Zen Prodigy [Feat]
You possess an exceptional gift for the martial arts.
Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus AC from wisdom and the saving throw DCs of special monk abilities (Stunning Attack and Quivering Palm) treat your Wisdom as 2 points higher than its actual value.
Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st level character. You can take this feat even if you dont have any monk levels yet.
I can't say I really created it, as it is based off of Spell Prodigy, but it would give monks a feat for their own in dusk.
Technik
Dr. NRG
First Post
I want to review what kinds of stats you would want to play this PrC. First, a monk generally wants four good stats to work right - dex, wis, str, con - they are often in melee combat, and basically can't wear armor. Thus the need for evading blows with dex, and living through damage with a decent con bonus. In order to use the intelligence-based skills in this PrC, you'd want a decent intelligence, right? Provided you went in as a sorceror, you presumably want a decent charisma, right? That looks like either five or six crucial ability scores for an effective character. Perhaps this is spreading things too thin?
What I'm driving at here is that it is tough enough to be effective as a monk without further high statistics being crucial to your success. Any character playing a monk that has a nice leftover stat for intelligence is either playing a high point buy game, or is one lucky dice roller...
NRG
What I'm driving at here is that it is tough enough to be effective as a monk without further high statistics being crucial to your success. Any character playing a monk that has a nice leftover stat for intelligence is either playing a high point buy game, or is one lucky dice roller...
NRG
Michael Morris
First Post
Dr. NRG said:
The character's stat priority should go to charisma. After all, between Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom (Tome & Blood) Bull's Strength and Endurance a monk can easily compensate for any low stat. The question really isn't what stats, but what spells? This prestige class changes alot depending on your spell choices.
Khorod
First Post
I quite agree with you. I was just proposing a fairly viable in-game reason. Keeping Monk PrC's to a minimum to de-emphasize that whole monk-zone is right with my own philosophy.
My campaign is pretty of Euro-flavored, and I did drop the Monk. Traces of them can be founded in my more monastic version of the Cleric. I decided a key element to the campaign was the imminent contact with the East, and thus all Monk PrC's should be a ways off and NPC only for a long time to come.
I do suggest that if you create a spy/political manipulator class, you be sure not to neglect the angle of a corrupt ninja-monk wanting in, particularly one with a level or two of rogue.
