Monk Preview

[Dionysos]

I personally love the "psionic magic" stuff. It was always weird to me that when a cleric, wizard or druid set you on fire with his eyes it was magical but when a psion did, it wasn't for some reason. Gods, ambient mystical energy and lifeblood of the earth are magic. Psychic phenomena, well those are TOTALLY different!

Magic in 4e, as in the dictionary, means "supernatural power". Cool.

 

[Rechan]

Why is it there are so many strikers, and those seem to be the most popular and fun classes? Hmf. I think it leads to a desire for an ALL STRIKER PARTY WOO.

 

[RefinedBean]

Why is it there are so many strikers, and those seem to be the most popular and fun classes? Hmf. I think it leads to a desire for an ALL STRIKER PARTY WOO.

People like to move around and do damage.

Also, probably the easiest role to design for.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Humans, Elves, and Razorclaw Shifters seem like the way to go. Humans are even, arguably, the best option (or at least close to it) if versatility's your thing, given that there's actually a choice to be made between at-wills, as opposed to one being a good "default option" with others fitting in various situations

PP-wise: Moonstalker (the shifter PP) seems to mesh really, really well with monks Mechanically, that is. Adroit Explorer also works quite well, but it's awesome for any class. Twilight Guardian doesn't key off of dex though, so that's not much of an option for Elves.

I think the Full Discipline description is fine; it was quite clear to me. An in-play example might be a good idea, though.

On Dance of the Stinging Hornet: awesome concept for a power! Breaking the grab will be an interesting situation, though. DEX is of course going to be quite high, so them doing an Acrobatics vs Reflex to escape probably wouldn't work incredibly well. Athletics vs Fortitude might succeed with some better regularity though as there's not much reason to pump CON and this version doesn't have the STR monk in it. Should be fine anyway, but it does seem like it's a power sliiightly better suited for the STR monk, yet in the WIS preview. EDIT: Nevermind, Centered gets a +fort bonus, forgot about that...

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I personally love the "psionic magic" stuff. It was always weird to me that when a cleric, wizard or druid set you on fire with his eyes it was magical but when a psion did, it wasn't for some reason. Gods, ambient mystical energy and lifeblood of the earth are magic. Psychic phenomena, well those are TOTALLY different!

Magic in 4e, as in the dictionary, means "supernatural power". Cool.

While I agree on the supernatural part. Psionics is definitely supernatural, I never really viewed it as magic.

In that I always preferred it being more in the vein of Pseudoscience, it is complete nonsense but in this world the act of tapping into your brain and being able to shift molecules about, change gravity, etc, etc actually works. That it can be in this world scientifically measured. It is the difference between the stuff they do on Fringe and say... Buffy (also modern but has magic).

While I don't expect it to be the dominant idea (since most people don't like this kind of stuff in their D&D) I am hopeful of some reference, homage to this kind of idea. Perhaps a class which has this specific focus.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Long story shorter...

They came up with the "full discipline" idea and realized it wouldn't work as a mechanic for all classes that would have been under the ki source. Also, having all "asian" classes use the ki source would have been as silly as having all western classes use a single power source.

Ki was dwindling to only a couple of classes, so they decided to put those classes into other power sources.

Thanks for the explanation.

So, basically, they took the route that almost no one wanted (lumping everything "asian" into the ki power source), it didn't work out for obvious reasons (I've argued countless times that lumping Wu Jen, Shugenja, or even the Ninja into Ki is pointless), and thus they chose to scrap it entirely rather than come up with a set of new ideas to actually make it work and create something that adds to the game. Somewhere in there they arbitrarily decided to fuse a mechanic into an entire power source for no good reason. And now we have the Monk as part of the Psionic power source, diluting and confusing both the classic idea of the Monk/Ki-user/barehand-fighter class and the entire idea of what Psionics means.

I still remain entirely unimpressed by all of this. I guess I may as well hold final judgement until the class is actually released in the PHB 3, though. I will continue to mourn the loss of all the great potential the Ki power source had, though.

 

[Dionysos]

While I agree on the supernatural part. Psionics is definitely supernatural, I never really viewed it as magic.

In that I always preferred it being more in the vein of Pseudoscience, it is complete nonsense but in this world the act of tapping into your brain and being able to shift molecules about, change gravity, etc, etc actually works. That it can be in this world scientifically measured. It is the difference between the stuff they do on Fringe and say... Buffy (also modern but has magic).

I actually saw psionics more or less like that too. I also see what Wizards do as the same sort of thing in essence; in their case, using intensive techniques learned through laborious study for manipulating fundamental universal energies. To me, Wizards are similar to quantum physicists who are able to directly manipulate the energies involved.

I guess the fact that there is a theoretical basis for the phenomena does not make it non-magical to me. Certainly, anybody can agree that divine magic in D&D has a theoretical basis. Also, because gods exist and can be interacted with, it is likely that the energies involved could be "measured in this world", given the assuptions of the power source.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I really don't get the feeling loss from the demise of the Ki power source. Power Sources have little in game effect (they do have some) and what is the difference of Ki from Psionic (and from magic as well)?. If someone wants to explain to me a definition of Ki and psionic that is universal and different from magic in anything apart from somantics, please fork a thread and enlighten me.

Psionic: internal magic, ki umm: a different sort of internal magic, arcane magic: umm magic from somewhere else (I dunno), divine magic: gods and primal magic: nture I get but over all the whole power source thing for me is pretty meh, as in I can't get het up about it.

EDIT: and it is so fluff based just call the monk a Ki striker and you are sorted in your campaign.

 

[Vendark]

Thanks for the explanation.

So, basically, they took the route that almost no one wanted (lumping everything "asian" into the ki power source), it didn't work out for obvious reasons (I've argued countless times that lumping Wu Jen, Shugenja, or even the Ninja into Ki is pointless), and thus they chose to scrap it entirely rather than come up with a set of new ideas to actually make it work and create something that adds to the game. Somewhere in there they arbitrarily decided to fuse a mechanic into an entire power source for no good reason. And now we have the Monk as part of the Psionic power source, diluting and confusing both the classic idea of the Monk/Ki-user/barehand-fighter class and the entire idea of what Psionics means.

I still remain entirely unimpressed by all of this. I guess I may as well hold final judgement until the class is actually released in the PHB 3, though. I will continue to mourn the loss of all the great potential the Ki power source had, though.

+1

The monk looks like a cool class, but I was excited to see what new ideas the ki power source was going to bring into the game. Very disappointed that they choked on the opportunity.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

True, well it is more I just hope, that WoTC just doesn't go, "its Arcane but with the MIND!!!" If you get my drift. I am hopeful they can since Primal has for example a very different vibe and feel. So I am hoping for Psionics one way they can get this across is a much more upfront Pseudoscience angle (in at least some class, paragon path, etc.)

*Shifty eyes and whispers* Plus I am really gunning for them to eventually do a Pseudoscience setting. So Psionics having that vibe would be helpful.