Monk Revisions

[Victim]

Actually, Stunning Fist is pretty nice simply because it's free. If the monk is attacking a decent enemy, he might as well use his stunning fist. Even if it's a low probability shot, it still has a chance. Of course, I also seemed to like rolling threes and fours when our monk used it.

 

[Gizzard]

Actually, Stunning Fist is pretty nice simply because it's free.

True that. Especially now that I have 6 of them to use I feel free to throw them out in sort of a "why not?" fashion. Not like I expect them to do anything, but if they were to work it would be a pleasant surprise. Though at very low levels (1-3) its frustrating to try and be intelligent about your few Fist usages (by saving them for a particularly tight battle, etc) only to have your foes save 75% of the time.

Stunning Fist is not something that you can depend on, therefore its not something you can plan a strategy around. It's "nice" because there is no drawback to using it, but it's an ability every Monk would probably trade for any halfway decent Feat.

 

[hong]

these stats 20 str, 12 dex, 10 con, 10 int, 16 wis, 6 chr.

Is this is a Monk? No, this is a Barbarian trapped in a Monks body.

Hey, if it works, don't knock it.

Seriously, what is this guys AC and HP from levels 1-6? Sure, you can finally deal damage like a real Fighter, but your AC is what - 11 or 12? And you are +0 on CON for HPs with d8 Hit Dice? Good luck standing in a fight with these stats.

AC would be 14, which isn't too bad. If it's low, just pick up bracers of armour or a ring of protection at the first opportunity. Hit points would be the killer. Personally, I'd trade some of that Str for Con, say 16-16 instead of 20/10.

 

[Pax]

Someone has already mentioned the lack of a +1 damage potential until the 10th level... But it seems to me that a Monk could simply carry around a +1 or +2 handaxe or dagger or something, incase it is necessary. Also, I'd say that the Monk's receiving of a permanent +1, +2, etc. to their "weapon" that can never, ever be stolen or dropped or taken from them (well, unless their limbs were chopped off, but then they've got bigger problems) more than balances this out.

Okay, so when (inevitably) the majority of the monk's opponents have DR, the monk should expect to have to use a magic weapon (whose damage is NOT level-scalar) intead of their much-vaunted unarmed attacks (whose damage is level-scalar) ... ?

If a Monk is supposed to be a master unarmed fighter, the monk should not need to even ponder using a weapon, except in the rarest of situations ("Hmm, that Fiery-Burst Kama of Dragon-bane would be a very useful weapon against this white dragon" ...).

IMO, a simple fix for the Ki strike issue is, give them a phantom +1 (or phantom "penetrate the first X points of DR" in 5- or 10-point increments), every 4 levels.

Tons of AC that also can never be lost,

Potentially tons of AC that is rarely lost. Monks lose their DEX bonus to AC like anyone else. And if immobilised, they lose their WIS and Class bonus too.

And they'll only have "tons" of AC, if they have TONS of attributes. The Monk is the most attribute-dependant character in teh game, bar none (the Paladin comes in a close second). Monks want Strength (unarmed combat hit/damage), Dexterity (AC and initiative), and Wisdom (AC). They reallywant as high as possible for all three -- 18's at game start, if possible!! 16's "at least", and 14's for all three at a "bare minimum".

They have as much desire for Constitution (HP) as any other melee specialist.

immunity to everything, the ability to become ethereal several times a day, supernatural attacks that cause death instantly, the ability to jump for miles... All this really adds up, in my opinion. And I'm also interested in what the official 3.5e will do to them.

Any other reasons?

And those abilities are gained innately rather than from magic items -- but overall, slightly slower than other classes will pick up commensurate abilities.

The concept of the Monk is great; the main problem is they're too reliant on attributes (I'd like to see monk's Damage / To-Hit based on DEX and/or WIS), and a problem with DR. Frankly, if monk WEAPONS had their damage scale up with the Monk's level, IMO that'd go a long way to fixing the class (at least then, bare hand or +1 Kama of Sure Striking, the monk player isn't losing an entire class feature (level-scalar damage and/or Unarmed Attack Rate) just to penetrate DR ...).

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

AC would be 14, which isn't too bad. If it's low, just pick up bracers of armour or a ring of protection at the first opportunity. Hit points would be the killer. Personally, I'd trade some of that Str for Con, say 16-16 instead of 20/10.

The problem with this though is that you are contending with the Spell casters for these items, so most likely you'll be second in line to get them. However you definitely hit the nail on the head, the low HP would just slaughter you.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A 14 AC doesn't cut it. It is likely to be the lowest in the party once the fighting starts. (If you are counting on the wizard to cast Mage Armor on you, maybe you should consider a class that comes equipped to carry its weight instead?)

It is also a perfect example of why a Warrior-classed PC would be a better choice. Use the exact same stats, plop some mail and a shield, and voila! You have AC 19 and do d8 + Str instead of d6 + Str.

I actually have great respect for Stunning attack. It is just the monk burns through them too quickly and misses too often to get the Stun regularly until ~7th level. At that point a DC of 16 or 17 is useful and you have enough of Stun attempts to keep at it. Stunning attack is the saving grace for mid-levels monks in my book.

 

[hong]

The problem with this though is that you are contending with the Spell casters for these items, so most likely you'll be second in line to get them.

Not in my experience. The rings of protection can be used by anyone, and from what I've seen it tends to be the tanks (who are in the frontline) who want those most of all. The bracers of armour are outclassed by the mage armour spell until you get to +5. So wizards don't tend to use these either, at least not at low levels.

In any case, if the DM is reasonably flexible with item creation or buying items off NPC crafters, then fighting over the loot shouldn't be a major problem.

 

[Gizzard]

Hey, if it works, don't knock it.

Lol. If it worked, I wouldnt knock it. But as you point out, 14AC and d8 HPs isnt going to make you much of a fighter.

The problem with this though is that you are contending with the Spell casters for these items, so most likely you'll be second in line to get them.

Absolutely. I've been there. Not a problem if you are running a high-magic campaign where you can just go to the store and buy a Ring Pro +1 with the first couple thousand GP you get, so the seriousness of this varies depending on playstyle. But in my low-magic world the Monk doesnt get jack because pretty much everyone else can make a better case for "needing" it.

(I could be a rat during treasure division, but I always imagined that the Monk stresses the harmony of the group over the glory of the individual, so grabbing a treasure that someone else could use better is contemptable.)

It is just the monk burns through them too quickly and misses too often to get the Stun regularly until ~7th level.

If I could use more than one Stun during a Flurry then it would be useful. Or if the Stun stayed active until you actually hit, that would be good. But considering that you dont have a particularly good ToHit on any one attack then having to pick the Stun beforehand is a great burden which sucks all the life out of this ability.

Maybe it gets better at 7th (or maybe my group is playing this wrong?) but I dont really see how. At 6th I am getting to the point where I can pretty freely throw Stuns around without worrying about running out. But it doesnt change the fact that I miss a lot on the designated Stun attacks and that lots of monsters have good Fort Saves.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Or if the Stun stayed active until you actually hit, that would be good. But considering that you dont have a particularly good ToHit on any one attack then having to pick the Stun beforehand is a great burden which sucks all the life out of this ability.

There's a feat in Kingdoms of Kalamar that might help. (These things are more like patches than solutions, as it fixes the problem, at a cost, but not really fixing the Monk.) It's called Unerring Strike, and is basically the reverse of Power Attack. You subtract a number from your damage and add it to your attack roll. It's limited by your BAB, just like Power Attack, and has a Dex requirement of 13+. Minimum damage is 1, no matter how much you subtract, but that shouldn't affect the Stunning attack.

Your DM might say it's too powerful a feat, though. It's great for Rogues.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm... I seen more than one enemy fighter stunned by the puny monk... and he didn't laugh as the fighter/rogue archers changed target.

Everyone whines about puny stunning fist DC. Especially at the scorned low levels, I didn't see those being too easy. And even later, rogues and spellcasters usually failed more than 50%.