Monkey grip and weapon properties

[Janos Audron]

When using monkey grip and a spiked chain, what happens to your reach? Can you still use weapon finesse with it? Can you still attack targets 5 ft. away?

And is there a general rule about this somewhere?

 

[Hypersmurf]

When using monkey grip and a spiked chain, what happens to your reach? Can you still use weapon finesse with it? Can you still attack targets 5 ft. away?

Monkey Grip in 3.5 works differently - it's detailed in The Complete Warrior.

If you're Medium, you can't use Monkey Grip to use a Medium Two-Handed weapon (like a Medium Spiked Chain) in one hand. You can use it to use a Large Two-Handed weapon (like a Large Spiked Chain) as a two-handed weapon, or a Large One-Handed weapon (like a Large Longsword) as a one-handed weapon... but that doesn't help you with your question.

What you might want to try instead is using a Small Spiked Chain (a one-handed weapon for a Medium creature, by the rules for Inappropriately-Sized Weapons) in one hand. It's still a reach weapon, it still allows you to attack 10'/5', and it still allows you to use Weapon Finesse.

What's not clear in the rules is whether a Large creature using a Medium spiked chain in one hand can still reach 20', since the rules specify that a Large creature wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away... and a Medium chain is not of the appropriate size.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Gah. Thanks all 53 gods for my players who don't come up with things like that and apologies to FrankT for ever criticising his opinion about the ridiculity (sp?!?) of the weapon size rules.

Edit: Hyp, a large creature wielding a medium sized greatsword in one hand still uses it's own reach... more than a medium sized creature with the same sword would have. So a medium sized creature with a spiked chain would threaten 10ft and a large creature wielding the same weapon would threaten 20ft reach. Longer arms help.

Where's hong when you need him?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hyp, a large creature wielding a medium sized greatsword in one hand still uses it's own reach... more than a medium sized creature with the same sword would have. So a medium sized creature with a spiked chain would threaten 10ft and a large creature wielding the same weapon would threaten 20ft reach. Longer arms help.

Longer arms help, but the rules for Large creatures and reach weapons specify a weapon "of the appropriate size". Should a Huge creature get 15 feet of extra reach from a Medium longspear? The rules say no; he needs a Huge longspear to double his natural reach.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Darn. I guess most of the problems with these rules derive from the "balance" towards the small player races. If they would have given them less reach, everything would have been linear and "logical".

So a human with a halfling longspear "doubles" his reach, while an ogre with a human longspear maintains the "human" reach? Gah. Back to the whiskey.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So a human with a halfling longspear "doubles" his reach, while an ogre with a human longspear maintains the "human" reach? Gah. Back to the whiskey.

They actually tried to make Reach weapons logical in the A&EG - effectively giving a Reach weapon a "reach modifier" rather than saying "Reach weapons double reach". They didn't quite put it like that, but it was close to a workable system.

... and then 3.5 came out, and it all fell apart again

-Hyp.

 

[Janos Audron]

Hyp: I want to use a Large spiked chain as a two-handed weapon. What is my reach? Is it still finessable? Can I attack targets 5 ft. away with it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hyp: I want to use a Large spiked chain as a two-handed weapon. What is my reach? Is it still finessable? Can I attack targets 5 ft. away with it?

Assuming you're playing 3.5, then you need the CW Monkey Grip feat, it retains 5'/10' reach, and it's still finessable.

Basically you're swapping a -2 attack penalty for increased damage dice.

In 3E, a Large spiked chain was the default, so the question's fairly meaningless.

In 3E, if you mean a spiked chain designed for a Large creature (ie a Huge spiked chain under 3E terminology), you'd need the Wield Oversized Weapon epic feat to use it, and under A&EG rules you'd have a 15' reach. If a Large creature used it, he'd have a 20' reach.

-Hyp.