I don't know what SRD you're using, but the one I'm using just says that a colossal dragon has enough bits to make a medium suit of full plate (+ sheild). Not that medium armor comes from a colossal dragon. I find enough room in interpretation to say that if a colossal dragon can do it, then two gargantuan dragons can do the same, etc...monboesen said:
Monk's Belt help
- Thread starter BAW
- Start date
Without taking a side on Wis +1 AC vs just +1 AC initially, I will say it's worth noting the AC gained stacks with dang near everything. Stacking defense is a big deal. It's normally a no-no (items don't give dodge bonueses for this reason). So you've got to figure that if an ioun stone that gives +1 insight bonus to AC is worth 5k, then an item that grants an unnamed bonus, which stacks with everything, muts be worth more.
And yes, ioun stones don't take up a slot. However, even if you apply the x2 multiple, which sems to be consistent with the ability boost stone prices, that's a base cost of 2,500 for +2 AC of an odd bonus type. For no bonus type? I can easily see +1 AC of no type being 10k, and the unarmed damage another 3 k. And since drawbacks to items don't seem to be worth more than a 30% reduction, I'm not convinced the fact you can't wear armor is relevent (it still stack with armor bonuses from other sources).
Let's put it another way. If we assume you price the item with the idea that whoever puts it on has just a +1 Wis mod (if you have no mod, why wear it?), it's worth +2 AC if the Wis adds. For a standard item, that would be 8,000 gp. But we know an unusual bonus type is worth x2.5 (see the ioun stone, above), so that should be at -least- 20,000 gp. An that's assuming being of no bonus type isn't worth even more.
It seems to me the math supports a flat +1 AC, given the nature of the bonus.
And yes, ioun stones don't take up a slot. However, even if you apply the x2 multiple, which sems to be consistent with the ability boost stone prices, that's a base cost of 2,500 for +2 AC of an odd bonus type. For no bonus type? I can easily see +1 AC of no type being 10k, and the unarmed damage another 3 k. And since drawbacks to items don't seem to be worth more than a 30% reduction, I'm not convinced the fact you can't wear armor is relevent (it still stack with armor bonuses from other sources).
Let's put it another way. If we assume you price the item with the idea that whoever puts it on has just a +1 Wis mod (if you have no mod, why wear it?), it's worth +2 AC if the Wis adds. For a standard item, that would be 8,000 gp. But we know an unusual bonus type is worth x2.5 (see the ioun stone, above), so that should be at -least- 20,000 gp. An that's assuming being of no bonus type isn't worth even more.
It seems to me the math supports a flat +1 AC, given the nature of the bonus.
The math supports +1 = 13k gold with the wear-no-armor limitation?
I don't play in your game, of course, but unless magic items are extremely extremely rare I cannot ever imagine a player buying this item at that price. I mean, yes, I agree, unnamed bonuses are great, but there are just so many ways to boost AC via magic for reasonable prices, that 13k for a +1 is not realistic, as I see it.
I don't play in your game, of course, but unless magic items are extremely extremely rare I cannot ever imagine a player buying this item at that price. I mean, yes, I agree, unnamed bonuses are great, but there are just so many ways to boost AC via magic for reasonable prices, that 13k for a +1 is not realistic, as I see it.
From this one
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/specialMaterials.html
Full quote.
See the bits about what armor can be made. That states that you need a dragon four size categories larger than the breastplate armor you want to make. Four size categories larger than medium is colossal.
That might be reasonable, but its still a houserule. And there is no room for interpretation. In fact the RAW is quote clear on the subject.
The rules are clearly not thought trough very well, but thats another discussion. For starters theres no rhyme and reason the the prices of dragon hide. 2000-3000 gp for an armor made by a colossal dragon. I'm sure that people who could actually kill a colossal dragon would find other more worthwhile things to do with the corpse. Hell even stuffing the thing for a display is better. They sure don't need the gold.
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/specialMaterials.html
Full quote.
See the bits about what armor can be made. That states that you need a dragon four size categories larger than the breastplate armor you want to make. Four size categories larger than medium is colossal.
That might be reasonable, but its still a houserule. And there is no room for interpretation. In fact the RAW is quote clear on the subject.
The rules are clearly not thought trough very well, but thats another discussion. For starters theres no rhyme and reason the the prices of dragon hide. 2000-3000 gp for an armor made by a colossal dragon. I'm sure that people who could actually kill a colossal dragon would find other more worthwhile things to do with the corpse. Hell even stuffing the thing for a display is better. They sure don't need the gold.
Practical example of Monks belt being Wis + 1AC
I have a player in my campaign who is a min-maxer from way back. He is playing a level 12 cleric with the magic domain and wearing a monks belt. The wisdom is Maximised. The magic domain means he can cast sheild spells, mage armor from wands.
He has managed an AC of 33. It takes several rounds to power up. His AC is 27 with-out buffs.
A second cleric, in the same party, going the sheild/fullplate route has an AC of 34 with-out buffs.
Trust me my min/maxer is good - he got a lvl 12 druid to AC 46 before I made several house/campaign rules to bring his AC down. So if the best he can get is 27 then I am happy that the monks belt is balanced. The lower 27 AC is countered by the fact that his touch AC is also 27.
I have a player in my campaign who is a min-maxer from way back. He is playing a level 12 cleric with the magic domain and wearing a monks belt. The wisdom is Maximised. The magic domain means he can cast sheild spells, mage armor from wands.
He has managed an AC of 33. It takes several rounds to power up. His AC is 27 with-out buffs.
A second cleric, in the same party, going the sheild/fullplate route has an AC of 34 with-out buffs.
Trust me my min/maxer is good - he got a lvl 12 druid to AC 46 before I made several house/campaign rules to bring his AC down. So if the best he can get is 27 then I am happy that the monks belt is balanced. The lower 27 AC is countered by the fact that his touch AC is also 27.
anon said:
Actually, the more common magic items are, the better a deal the monk's belt becomes.
See, because it doesn;t stack, it;s not early on it's useful. Of -source- you buy the deflection bonus item and the natural armor bonus item, and even the armor bonus items first. But once you have the +2 ring, the +2 amulet, the +4 bracers and the ioun stone, where are you going to get -another- point of AC from?
Suddenly, 13k is a bargain even for +1 AC. If it adds more than that, it suddenly becomes a bargain even if you have to buy a +2 Wis item to make it more than +1 AC.
The price is fair for +1 AC unnamed bonus. For more than that, it's waaaaay too cheap.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Phillip said:
If anything, the text you provided indicates that a monk's belt should provide the Wisdom bonus.
Otherwise, it would not need to be specifically called out as an exception in the case of the PrC. In effect, the PrC is saying:
PrC: "You get the AC of a 5th-level monk."
Rules: 5th-level monks get Wis + 1 to AC.
PrC: "You don't get to add the Wis bonus, however."
Rules: You get +1 AC.
That's the one I was looking at. And honesly, I don't see where it says that the dragon NEEDS to be four sizes larger than the breastplate. Just that you can make a breastplate out of a single dragon that large. Not that it all has to be from the same dragon.monboesen said:
If they had said something about the size of the scales, and that a breastplate is made out of a pair of full sized scales, and that a smaller dragon doesn't have any scales large enough, I'd agree. But it doesn't say that.
