Monk's Belt help

[Philip]

If anything, the text you provided indicates that a monk's belt should provide the Wisdom bonus.

Otherwise, it would not need to be specifically called out as an exception in the case of the PrC. In effect, the PrC is saying:

PrC: "You get the AC of a 5th-level monk."
Rules: 5th-level monks get Wis + 1 to AC.
PrC: "You don't get to add the Wis bonus, however."
Rules: You get +1 AC.

Actually, I agree, a literal reading would strongly suggest this, it's just that they now throw 'class based AC bonus' into the mix, which muddles it a bit. It was more that I wondered why they would say this? To me it's obvious the a Monk's Belt only gives +1 AC, not 1+WIS. When I read this I thought "well, this is how they should have described the Monk's Belt, and how I think they will describe it in the next edition/errata/whatever". The PrC ability just resembles of the Monk Belt's ability so closely (stack with Monk abilities, if no monk, get the abilities of a level x Monk) except for that additional 'but' part of the sentence. The part they either forgot or intentionally did not mention in the description for the belt. The designer's intent is unclear on that part of the Monk's Belt.

What is clear is that the Monk's Belt seems undercosted for what it provides. And I can't quote any campaign examples because everyone in our campaign was in agreement that it just gives the +1 on AC to non-monks.

Besides, I don't see DM's approving a 'Duellist's Belt' for 13K, which gives the wearer the AC bonus of a Duellist of 5th lvl (Canny Defense: add Int bonus up to Duellist's level to AC, works like Dodge bonus), even though this is strictly weaker than the Monk's Belt.

 

[apesamongus]

Besides, I don't see DM's approving a 'Duellist's Belt' for 13K, which gives the wearer the AC bonus of a Duellist of 5th lvl (Canny Defense: add Int bonus up to Duellist's level to AC, works like Dodge bonus), even though this is strictly weaker than the Monk's Belt.

Because that would be abalance problem in many more cases, where the monk's belt isn't. You also aren't likely to see a mystic wanderer's belt anytime soon.

 

[monboesen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino
That's the one I was looking at. And honesly, I don't see where it says that the dragon NEEDS to be four sizes larger than the breastplate. Just that you can make a breastplate out of a single dragon that large. Not that it all has to be from the same dragon.

If they had said something about the size of the scales, and that a breastplate is made out of a pair of full sized scales, and that a smaller dragon doesn't have any scales large enough, I'd agree. But it doesn't say that.
That's the one I was looking at. And honesly, I don't see where it says that the dragon NEEDS to be four sizes larger than the breastplate. Just that you can make a breastplate out of a single dragon that large. Not that it all has to be from the same dragon.

If they had said something about the size of the scales, and that a breastplate is made out of a pair of full sized scales, and that a smaller dragon doesn't have any scales large enough, I'd agree. But it doesn't say that.

I agree.

It says what you can build out of one dragon, not what you can build from multiple dragons

But it does not specifically mention making armors of several dragons. So who is guessing at designer intent now

 

[domino]

Both of us. Which is why it's open to interpretation.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Since you mentioned it, to get back on topic: which of the two points of view do you think the following text from Complete Arcane (p. 36) supports, and why?

Monk Abilities: An enlightened fist adds her class level to her monk level to determine her class-based AC bonus, her unarmed damage, her unarmored speed bonus, and the number of daily attempts of her Stunning Fist feat. Is she has no monk levels, she gains the AC bonus, unarmed damage and unarmored speed bonus of a monk whose levels equals her enlightened fist level, but she can't add her Wisdom bonus to her AC.

Unless that was written by the same person who created the monk's belt, it is neither here nor there. And, even if the PrC was written by the same person, they might have still had different intents with the item and the PrC. The fact that the item is described in a different way also helps make the PrC less relevent.

I would say that you could freely use the Enlightened Fist as a reason to tone down the item for your own house rules. If you do that, though, I would also recommend reducing the price of the belt, because no compelling case has been made for it to be worth 13k if it only gives you a measly +1 AC bonus, plus unarmed attacks of a somewhat dubious nature (do you face AoOs? is it subdual damage?).

 

[Plane Sailing]

On the issue of designer intent, just who IS the designer of the monks belt anyway?

I posted a question on Monte Cooks boards before checking and the 3e monks belt is so different that there is almost no point of similarity between the two (!)

So who was it who revised the DMG? Hopefully I'll be able to track down a low-traffic messageboard which they run and get an answer from them

Cheers

 

[azmodean]

Rawhide, one point you are missing is that the monk's belt AC bonus does not stack with everything, as an unnamed bonus would. Specifically, it does not stack with the single biggest and cheapest source of AC available, armor. With that restriction, I definitely don't see it being worth the same as even a +1 deflection bonus, since the latter stacks with conventional armor.

 

[Seeten]

This thread is funny.

Monk's belt, according to the RAW, is wis + 1 ac. Anything else is a house rule. I disagree that it needs a house rule, but clearly, the fact is, if you dont like the design of the item, its a house rule. Rules are clear. Whether its better or not than armor for a min-maxed Druid build that I've never seen played and likely won't isnt at all relevant to the RAW.

Designer Intent isnt really important either, since the item basically sucks in everyone's hands except a half naked Druid.

I have spoken.

 

[anon]

Well said. I agree.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Monk's belt, according to the RAW, is wis + 1 ac. Anything else is a house rule.

Of course, the reason that this thread exists is that the RAW itself obviously isn't conclusively clear. If it was, there wouldn't be any discussion! In the spirit of this thread you might like to suggest why you think the RAW supports this particular interpretation - I'm sure that others here will be interested.

Cheers