monks too powerful

[Forrester]

Where did you get the +22 from? I can see +5 for the sword, and a 30 strength would give what - +10? So that's +15 = where's the other +7? Weopon spec won't get you there. I may be missing something, but I would like to know what it is....

Two-handed weapons give x1.5Str bonus; a 30Str gives him +15 to damage from strength alone.

 

[Brett]

Fair enough - my mistake!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'll grant that monks have trouble hitting a high AC; and I can see your argument as far as magic goes, but a lot of it relies on having a high level character with high magic, with no real consideration for any magic the monk may have. For instance, the monks belt - haste for the monk. If you're going to grant the high level fighter or barbarian a +8 weapon or so, and a fly item, then it is almost certain that the high level monk is going to have a monks belt. What other items is a high level monk going to take?

Actually, I'd expect a 20th level monk to have something like Bracers of Armor +8, a cloak of Resistance +5, Periapt of Wisdom +6, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Belt of Giant Strength +6, Boots of Speed, Ring of Protection +5, a +1 Sure Striking Kama of Throwing, Returning and Distance, several potions of Cure Serious Wounds (at least one at clvl 15--it's inefficient but if you don't have a cleric available it's the best you can do). . . . a potion of see Invisible or Invisibility Purge and a few other such things.

The monk's problem in this regard is that he is very limited in the kinds of magic items he can use and the ones that he's limited to tend to be very expensive. A monk can't get fortification armor, for instance. And if there are any items to give the monk's hands an enhancement bonus, they'd be significantly more expensive than a weapon with that same bonus (because they bypass one of the monk's main restrictions, can't be disarmed or sundered, etc).

I'm not sure how the monk would best use this, but the easiest way to reduce it is to look at the high level characters WITHOUT magic. In this instance, the high level monk is going to have all sorts of fun bouncing in and out of combat with his high move (and spring attack) versus the high level fighter/barbarian with no magic items.

Comparing high level characters without magic is meaningless. In the core D&D rules, high level characters have magic and lots of it. If you reduce the magic level, you skew the balance of the classes--it's that simple. A 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard each with their full gp value in items may present similar levels of challenge. A 20th level fighter in Fruit of the Looms with a 5gp mace, however, is not nearly the same challenge as a 20th level wizard in his Fruit of the Looms with a 5 gp spell component pouch. (Assuming spells are already prepared. . . .)