monks . . . we don't need no stinking monks

[Sanackranib]

monks

ditto for the origional monk

 

[Belen]

I do not think that Monk's are that powerful. I have a min/max rules lawyer player right now and his monk routinely gets the crap kicked out of him. In fact, he has started to run away from fights after he gets down to a certain number of hitpoints.

They call him Yello Weak-Knee!

Seriously though, I though that Monk's were god awful on paper, but their attack bonus stinks and while they may hit with one attack, they usually miss the rest. As for the special abilities, they do not work that well and even with slow fall, they can still die if falling from a great height.

In addition, anti-magic field is the bane of their existance. Most of their abilities are supernatural and do not work. Heck, in a field, they can be poisoned.

No biggie.

Dave

 

[spunky_mutters]

Re: monks

The class IS unbalanced. but like I said I'm not looking for a "debate" on weither monks are broken, the fact is I believe that they are, since I am the DM for my game, that issue is closed for me.

I always get a little tense when someone makes a definitive statement like this and then says they're not looking for a debate.

Without a debate it will be difficult for anyone to determine what it is you're looking for in an alternate martial artist. The exact nature of what IS unbalanced about the monk would help us to figure out what kind of suggestions to make.

 

[333 Dave]

Monks? We don't need no stinking monks!
I immideatly thought of UHF,
"Badgers?! We don't need no stinking BADGERS!"
Then again, I'm of the 'younger' generation and never saw the movie it origionally came from.

 

[kenjib]

The line you are thinking of is "Badges. We don't need no stinkin' badges." I believe the line is from the movie "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" starring Humphrey Bogart.

This is actually one of those infamous misquotes, up there with "play it again, Sam" and "why don't you come up and see me sometime." Nobody ever says any of these in the films to which they are attributed. Here's the original:

http://www.darryl.com/badges/fullbadges.wav

The wording is different.

 

[333 Dave]

Probably because of UHF on the miswording. I definatly got that right.
Another favorite quote from UHF of mine:
"What is in the box? NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! YOU'RE SO STUPID!!!"

 

[MGibster]

So I disallowed the monk class in my game (broken-long tired story) But Im thinking about allowing martial artists. Has anyone includede a martial artist PC in their game (was it a class or PrC?)
if so how did it go?

A normal fighter would make a fine martial artist. He can take the proper feats and he's already proficent in all sorts of weapons.

Marc

 

[Black Omega]

Re: Re: monks . . . we don't need no stinking monks

A normal fighter would make a fine martial artist. He can take the proper feats and he's already proficent in all sorts of weapons.

Marc

He would still utterly suck in unarmed combat though, and still require heavier armor. Not quite what I'd like to see in a Martial Artist.

 

[hong]

In comparison to the fighter class (Which seems to be the base of the class), the Martial Artist is clearly superior:

...

Based on the cost for the gains, I would say this class is unbalanced from a mechanics standpoint.

Eh.

1) The MA suffers from the same disadvantage as does the monk, namely dependence on good stats. A fighter basically needs Str and Con to do his job. The MA also needs Dex and Wis, if he doesn't want to get hit all the time. He'll typically also do less damage and have less staying power than the fighter.

2) Check out the bonus fighter feats elsewhere on my D&D page. After you factor that in, the numbers are approximately equal. Not to mention that every second splatbook out there adds more fighter feats into the mix.

3) The MA gets to choose Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist as bonus feats, he doesn't get them automatically.

I've played a number of MAs now and they've never been particularly unbalancing. In fact, the first one died a particularly ignominious death after an evil cleric cast confusion on the party, and our wizard lightning bolted me.

 

[Quinn]

Hmm. Why not have a look at that class which I'm refusing to pimp, and tell me whether that works as an alternative definition that gives the "martial artist" relevance to a broader range of campaign settings. Because I'll be the first to admit that the regular monk is sorta like a fish out of water, having a highly specific niche that doesn't traditionally feature in most stock fantasy settings.

I like the class a lot, Hong. Using feats instead of class abilities gives a lot of customization which I think is missing from the monk. You should pimp this one more often!