Monks & Weapons & Powers, oh my

[mneme]

Mika, not seeing it.

"Melee, weapon, Monk" on cb comes up wtih 4 powers:
Dance of Swords(3), Dancing Cobra (1), Open the Gates of Battle (1), and Three Winds Kick (17)

-- all from PH3.

 

[DracoSuave]

My phb3 doesn't show -any- range: melee weapon powers.

Zero.

This is because range: melee weapon does not actually have meaning when it's used in Implement powers.


You guys need to stop treating Character Builder like a rules source. Really. Go buy a PHB3.

 

[TAKERU]

Okay, I think I said it before, but...

The 4ed monk class is more like a controller that launch itself on the midst of battle, instead of hurling a fireball. Really. A man who moves to a ground zero of enemies to close burst them feels exactaly that way. A living spell (fireball).

I agree with the low usage of unarmed strikes. Just for OAs and MBAs is a loss, even more because you need to make Strenght attack rolls, a secondary ability for just half the monks. Since you don't throw your hands, would be needed a feat just to make these unarmed attacks accurate (forgot the feat's name). Seems broken to me.

Yes, the monks have a splendid "weapon" for broken use. And yes, making "melee touch" attacks with unarmed "implement" sounds like a sorcerer delivering any of his spells using a dagger as a medium at melee range. Again, its like enchanting his hands with wands magic propreties.

Avengers have weapon powers, and implement powers (for ranged powers). I can't see why monks couldn't do as well.

That "melee touch" and "psionic" keywords also make me feel as I am playing as a tactile-telekinesis-short-ranged-controller type of character.

By the other side, we have a new controller class that make weapon attacks targetting AC and doing Weapon damage. Really strange at all, seems like they are desperate to make things just different, whatever the means and odds.

I hope they 'mend' the monk as being not a D&D Jedi, but as a martial artist at heart that happens to have some supernatural tricks on their sleeves.

 

[Mika]

Mika, not seeing it.

"Melee, weapon, Monk" on cb comes up wtih 4 powers:
Dance of Swords(3), Dancing Cobra (1), Open the Gates of Battle (1), and Three Winds Kick (17)

-- all from PH3.

Or, as the others pointed out, all from the Compendium or Character Builder. PHB3 actually has all of these powers as "Melee Touch".

Still -- if you are creating a hybrid monk, two of those powers are available to you from the start, and at any given level you would be able to ensure that you have one encounter and one at-will attack power from that list. Since you are only required to have one power of each type from each class, that is quite enough for polearm abuse by a hybrid monk.

Hopefully this will be fixed on Tuesday.

 

[mneme]

*looks at the book* Yep. They're all melee touch in the book.
The book beats compendium here; no polearm abuse by a hybrid monk.

 

[Ferghis]

I think the OP's question has been fully addressed. I'm just posting to highlight that any magic weapon (including a the monk's unarmed attack, which can be enchanted), that the monk is proficient with can be used as a monk implement. So, while the +3 proficiency bonus and the d8 damage will not apply, all the enchantment's effects will apply. This enables frostcheese and similar combos with monk attacks.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

I think the OP's question has been fully addressed. I'm just posting to highlight that any magic weapon (including a the monk's unarmed attack, which can be enchanted), that the monk is proficient with can be used as a monk implement. So, while the +3 proficiency bonus and the d8 damage will not apply, all the enchantment's effects will apply. This enables frostcheese and similar combos with monk attacks.

The monk unarmed strike cannot be enchanted as of the publication of the PHB3. It does, like all attacks, get the benefit of a ki focus. (Monks who learn to use greatbows can be a nice addition to a group of long distance attackers. Especially when they can turn into a sort of defense against any opponent who thinks to run up and engage the artillery.)

 

[Artoomis]

The monk unarmed strike cannot be enchanted as of the publication of the PHB3. It does, like all attacks, get the benefit of a ki focus. (Monks who learn to use greatbows can be a nice addition to a group of long distance attackers. Especially when they can turn into a sort of defense against any opponent who thinks to run up and engage the artillery.)

It's unclear whether a monk's unarmed attacks gets the benefit of a ki focus for all attacks or only melee attacks.

I'm hoping for clarification Tuesday, but, meantime, I think it works like the following - only whether only the first 3 or all 4 is not entirely certain:

1. Monks may use a ki focus as an implement. When they do so they follow all the normal rules for using an implement.

2. Monks may use any weapon with which they have proficiency as an implement. When they do so, they follow all the normal rules for using a weapon as an implement

3. Monks may channel the magic of a ki focus through a weapon with which they are proficient to deliver weapon attacks. When they do so, they follow the normal rules for weapon attacks except they replace the weapon's enhancement bonuses with those of the ki focus for both attacks and damage.

4. Monks may channel the magic of a ki focus through a weapon with which they are proficient to deliver implement attacks. When they do so, they follow the normal rules for using a weapon as an implement except that the ki focus' enhancement bonus, critical hit effects, and magic item properties and powers replace those from the weapon.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's unclear whether a monk's unarmed attacks gets the benefit of a ki focus for all attacks or only melee attacks.

I'm hoping for clarification Tuesday, but, meantime, I think it works like the following - only whether only the first 3 or all 4 is not entirely certain:

1. Monks may use a ki focus as an implement. When they do so they follow all the normal rules for using an implement.

2. Monks may use any weapon with which they have proficiency as an implement. When they do so, they follow all the normal rules for using a weapon as an implement

3. Monks may channel the magic of a ki focus through a weapon with which they are proficient to deliver weapon attacks. When they do so, they follow the normal rules for weapon attacks except they replace the weapon's enhancement bonuses with those of the ki focus for both attacks and damage.

4. Monks may channel the magic of a ki focus through a weapon with which they are proficient to deliver implement attacks. When they do so, they follow the normal rules for using a weapon as an implement except that the ki focus' enhancement bonus, critical hit effects, and magic item properties and powers replace those from the weapon.

All correct.

And 4 might seem redundant at first glance, but if you're, say, an Eladrin Soldier using a tratnyr (not at all unheard of), you get the benefit of the extra benefits from your feats, while still getting your ki focus mojo.

 

[Artoomis]

All correct.

And 4 might seem redundant at first glance, but if you're, say, an Eladrin Soldier using a tratnyr (not at all unheard of), you get the benefit of the extra benefits from your feats, while still getting your ki focus mojo.

Right - you could also get some actual real, tangle benefits form using the unarmed attack if one takes some weapon feats to go with it. I am really hoping WotC clarifies this to be that all four apply.