Monks with 2 Monk Weapons

[chengarino]

PREMISE:

We all know how Monk's unarmed BAB (uBAB) works. It's added independently of the standard BAB. It assumes that the unarmed attack uses 'all body parts' to accomplish it's attack. Therefore, 'two-weapon' attack does not make sense when attacking unarmed.

When a Monk uses a monk weapon, the Monk gets to choose between his uBAB or BAB for the better attack bonus during combat.

QUESTION:

Say a monk 4 with uBAB +4/+1 attacks unarmed. He attacks with +4/+1 with his fists/legs/head/any-body-part.

Now, suppose a monk 4 uses his SINGLE Kama to attack. Then, the monk can use his Kama's with an attack bonus of +4/+1.

Now suppose that this same monk uses a Nunchaku and a Kama to attack. What is now the attack bonus for the two monk weapons being employed?

SOLUTIONS:

1) It is not possible to use 2 monk weapons simultaneously UNLESS you use non-Monk BAB (ie, no uBAB option) and are then penalized by the Two-Weapon Fighting penalties. ONLY one monk weapon may be employed at a time to gey the uBAB bonus.

2) It is possible to use 2 monk weapons simultaneously without any modification. In our example, the monk 4 would declare (before the roll) which of his attacks (+4 or +1) uses which weapon: unarmed, kama, or nunchaku.

3) It is possible to use 2 monk weapons simultaneously. However, the multiple weapons would be penalized by the Two-weapons fighting penalities. Furthermore, mixing unarmed (ie, legs) into Monk weapon attacks are not possible.

DISCUSSION:

What is the correct solution? Our group have settled on solution 2. That then leads to the ability of a Monk to 'mix' monk-weapons/unarmed during combat.

chengarino

 

[RigaMortus]

A monk 4 would not have an uBAB of +4/+1... They'd have a +3. They don't get +4/+1 until level 6.

 

[Yeoman]

We've always used option 2. Whether that's correct or not is debateable.

 

[Enkhidu]

#2 makes the most sense to me - a monk can use body parts interchangeably for all unarmed or monk-weapon attacks. I'd have no problem having a Monk PC with 4 attacks (let's say +11/+8/+5/+2) strike with Kama, legs, Siangam, and then elbows - each attack doing damage as per the weaon used.

Then again, I believe it's possible for an Ambidextrous character to use two weapons without any penalty at all as long as no extra attacks are being used (i.e. the iterative attacks are used interchangeably betweenboth weapons).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that Flurry of Blows is a special case : if the monk's normal UBAB is +7/+4/+1, then with a 2-weapon Flurry, they make three attacks (+5/+2/-1) with one weapon, and one attack (+5) with the other.

This is non-negotiable - they cannot make all four with one, or two with each, or whatever.

This restriction, however, does not apply when they are using one weapon and unarmed strikes, or simply unarmed strikes.

-Hyp.

 

[jlhorner1974]

The answer is definitely #2. You can use your unarmed BAB and more favorable attack rate all the time, as long as you are not weilding a non-monk weapon.

Enkhidu and Hypersmurf are both right. If you are NOT using flurry of blows with two monk weapons, you can mix and match attacks however you like between unarmed strikes, grapples, and monk weapons.

If you are using flurry of blows with two monk weapons, you choose one weapon for the primary attacks and one for the extra flurry attack.

In addtition, you never use the two-weapon fighting rules as a monk UNLESS you are wielding a non-monk weapon. In this case, you suffer the two-weapon penalties and have to use your normal BAB (not your unarmed BAB) just like everyone else.

Check the main D&D FAQ for a number of useful clarifications on monks.

 

[Norfleet]

Monks with 2 Monk weapons are a horrendous logical mess.

If you run with the implicit assumption that a monk uses his "entire" body when attacking unarmed and/or with monk weapons, when an off-hand weapon is brought into the mix, and the monk does NOT attack with it, then it clearly contradicts the assumption, and therefore, using proof by contradiction, a monk isn't fighting with his entire body when using monk weapons.

The only real way to avoid this quagmire is to assume that, when a monk uses monk weapons, he is using two: One in each hand, which he can attack with using any mix-and-match combination, and that if a monk, for some reason, is using only one, he can mix and match the monk weapon with unarmed strikes.

 

[Ranger REG]

While the monk uses nearly all of its body parts (including head-butting), it's their BAB/UAB that determines the number of attacks per round.

Of course, if we deemed that monk have natural weapons (fist, feet, and head), then we may have to abide by the natural weapons rules and offer the monk 1 primary attack plus 2 off-hand attacks (1 kick and 1 head-butt).

Better to ignore the second paragraph above.