"Monster Classes"

[I'm A Banana]

In the newest WotC "teaser," they give you the back of Savage Species, the book I've probably been looking the most forward to since 3e D&D first advertised monsters with class levels....

They mention "over 50 monster classes"

Compare this to the various class-like races of Abberation, Construct, etc....

I think I may have a small inkling of what they're doing....

It works kinda like this:

A mind flayer is an 8 HD abberation.

Over 8 character levels (abberation class), it gained all of it's powers.

So, we could (in theory) have a Mind Flayer class that looks something like:

Hit Die: d8
Attack Bonus: HDx3/4
Saves: Will good
Skill Points: 2xInt, +2/HD

So, an 8th level abberation would have 8d8 hp, a to-hit of +6, Fort +2 Ref +2 Will +6 and 16 skill points (+2/Int point).

Add to that special mind-flayer abilities...

...at 8 HD, gains Astral Projection and Plane Shift at will, and Mind Blast
...at 6 HD, gains Charm Monster at will
...at 4 HD, gains Detect Thoughts, Levitate, and Suggestion at will.

So, since this guy gets pretty tough at the upper levels, give him something like a +8 ECL (Usually a character would have to have about 16 HD to get Astral Projection and Plane Shift...so let's imagine the mind flayer class as actually having about 8 bonus levels of toughness for kicks, since then at his highest level, he'd have access to the powers).

So, then, a 1st level Mind Flayer, of 1 HD, would be a 9th level character....if that 1 HD was an Abberation HD, they'd be well on their way to being a mind flayer outta the MM.

At 8 abberation levels, the mindflayer "comes of age" and should be about the same as the mind flayer outta the MM. This would
be about 16th character level, though they have only 8 HD. And they'd be a challenge for 4 8th level Characters...

If the mind flayer gained 8 HD in a different class, they'd still eventually gain these powers within them...their total HD is what matters for "unlocking" these powers. ECL then, is a measure of the total power of the race...how much easier they gain powers than others.

Does this method seem fairly sound?

I'll admit, I probably waaay overestimated the mindflayer, an perhaps they're not the best example...(I'd probably adjust it down a level or three...this would be it's maximum)

But would dividing the monsters in the MM up into "classes," where they gained their powers at certain HD's, be too weird? Or does it seem like a somewhat safe method?

Like, watering down the Lillend's powers into 6 "levels" of lilend, and then basically granting PC's these as they level up, instead of an "all-or-nothing" approach?

Maybe force them to take "monster levels" to gain these abilities, and not have them arrive automatically with class levels?

Maybe I'm not articulating very well....but this idea has been banging around in my head for a while. It seems to work okay...I've braught it here to see if it does.

I'll provide another example...say, a character of a Noble Salamander who wants to be a sorcerer...

***
Racial Traits: +8 natural armor, Multiattack bonus feat, 20 ft. base speed, Heat, Constriction, Fire subtype, DR 5/+1

1st level Sorcerer (Salamander +1 DR)
2nd level...+1 DR
3rd level...+1 DR
4th level...+1 DR
5th level...+1 DR
6th level...+1 DR
7th level...+1 DR
8th level...+1 DR/+2 weapon required
9th level...+1 DR
10th level...+1 DR
11th level...+1 DR
12th level...+1 DR
13th level...+1 DR
14th level...+1 DR
15th level...+1 DR
16th level Sorcerer only (Salamander nothing)
17th level Sorcerer only (Salamander nothing)

Total ECL probably about +3? (Purely eyeballing that one)

Maybe this doesn't work so well...I dunno....just a brainstorm I had.

 

[Crothian]

Now if this is what they do it will make using ecls so much easier.

 

[Kamard]

I think we should wait, and if this isn't how they did it...

snatch it and make something with it.

 

[Zappo]

It would certainly making the use of monster PCs easier, but it doesn't make too much sense. Most monsters don't gain their hit dice or powers through experience, but through age or innate power instead. I don't see why an adventuring ogre should grow to full size in a month while a farming ogre (assuming there's one) takes a few years.

 

[jmucchiello]

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I have 50% of this already written and slated for my next project. ^*&(**&%% ^%(^ $$ ^*&%^%!!!

Joe Mucchiello
Throwing Dice Games
http://www.throwingdice.com

 

[jmucchiello]

It would certainly making the use of monster PCs easier, but it doesn't make too much sense. Most monsters don't gain their hit dice or powers through experience, but through age or innate power instead. I don't see why an adventuring ogre should grow to full size in a month while a farming ogre (assuming there's one) takes a few years.

Maybe the adventuring ogre was only a month away from growing to full size? Reverse causality is still causality.

Joe

 

[jmucchiello]

Now if this is what they do it will make using ecls so much easier.

That's one reason I was doing it. (The other reason being that ECLs aren't OGC.)

Joe

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hahhaha....sorry, man! I'll avoid asking any publishers if they want me to write stuff about it... (though the ECL's are kinda-OGC, aren't they? I mean, they're in the DMG...? I could be wrong on that, though...)

I guess the sense of it could be explained in that a "farming" ogre probably isn't an ogre out of the MM...after all, a farming ogre wouldn't probably get Weapon Focus, nor would they bother wearing hide armor all the time, either. The MM Ogre is one with some adventuring experience!

And, of course, some races would have more innate powers than others...not everything scales easily with levels. The Ogre actually has (by my estimation) a whooooole buncha innate powers (large size, natural armor, and ability score bonuses being the big ones, and nearly the only ones)....almost nothing about that, at least, scales with levels.

Though I did come up with this back in my 2e days, while trying to make a class out of every monster in the MM....and honestly the biggest selling point for 3e for me was the easy translation from monster to PC, which I always wanted and haven't been able to get, even up to this point.

GOD, I HOPE Savage Species is OGC!

Anyway, rambling now...hey, Joe, maybe we could unite our evil forces!

Anyhoo, keep this going...if no problem that's huge is pointed out, I'll see if I can't start posting these to House Rules, maybe get some helpers on this (since it's only mechanics, I feel safer giving it away than I would my Deities-A-Week(ish)). Of course, if Joe is planning on doing all the work for me, I guess I only have to buy his book when it comes out.

 

[Brisk-sg]

I did something along these lines for my 3rd Edition Birthright Campaign that I run.

I created a class for Awnsheghlien. It works fairly well, though It isn't balanced with the normal classes as the PC's probally will never use it.

It would be very usefull if WoTC used such a mechanic, allowing for easy creation of new monsters.

- Josh

 

[Creamsteak]

Heh... KM...

This was how I was doing monsters for FFTD20. If WotC does this I'll be really surprised. I chose to handle creatures this way since they level up in a similar manner in FFT, and it's a decent basis for the creatures to be characters...