Monster Design--from a designer's standpoint

[Imban]

They're not supposed to. They're not the protagonists. If you want one to survive and come back later, then you give him whatever plot protection he needs, and you don't need rules like healing surges to do it.

So, uh, what happens if a monster joins the party? ...and gets Healing Word used on it?

 

[hong]

So, uh, what happens if a monster joins the party? ...and gets Healing Word used on it?

At this point, the circle around its feet has changed from red to green, and so it would gain healing surges.

 

[Jack99]

So, uh, what happens if a monster joins the party? ...and gets Healing Word used on it?

Then it heals 1d6+cleric's charisma

 

[Simon Marks]

I often wonder how we managed between 1974 and 1999 when monsters joined the party.

Sarcasm aside, if a monster joins the party it needs to be re-written. When we get the new monster manual we'll see how easy/simple/well that works.

 

[Jack99]

At this point, the circle around its feet has changed from red to green, and so it would gain healing surges.

I don't think you are correct Hong, but maybe I have missed something. Have we had anything indicating this, or is it (just) personal speculation?

 

[hong]

I don't think you are correct Hong, but maybe I have missed something. Have we had anything indicating this, or is it (just) personal speculation?

It's what I consider to be most in keeping with the spirit of the rules. The idea is that PCs get more complicated rules because the spotlight is on them all the time. NPCs get abbreviated rules because they usually come and go. An NPC who joins the party is one on whom the spotlight will shine quite a lot (if only by reflected light), and so should be treated differently to run-of-the-mill NPCs.

 

[Imban]

I often wonder how we managed between 1974 and 1999 when monsters joined the party.

Sarcasm aside, if a monster joins the party it needs to be re-written. When we get the new monster manual we'll see how easy/simple/well that works.

We, uh, didn't. Seriously, in all my 2e games monsters never joined the party because the game 100% stopped making sense or even having rules for what's happening if they did.

Hong's answer is a good one, but only if it's actually true.

 

[Nebulous]

Uhm, is that really how 4E crits work? If has a crit based damage d10 die, is it not (crit: 14 +1d10)?

I thought that on a natural 20, this beastie would just automatically do 14 points of damage, no dice rolled.

 

[Lizard]

Having torn my hair out over monster math (even with an Excel sheet I wrote to do 80% of it for me) and endless fiddly things like "If it has one natural attack, it does +50% damage" (or something like that, I don't remember anymore), I can appreciate the ease of use from a writer's perspective. From a DMs perspective, I'm not sure I'm sold -- one of the great things about the current monster books is that the bulk of the things in there aren't just monsters -- they're potential NPCs. Anything with an Int score of 6 or so can show up in an interesting non-combat capacity as well. With powers balanced around "The monster will fight the PCs for an encounter", how well do these powers work when "The monster is traveling with the heroes as their ally" or "The monster is a powerful figure in the community who cannot be attacked directly"? I'm not talking specifically about summoned or companion creatures, which I know will have special rules which make them useful in those areas, but about the general inhabitants of the world who end up being part of the game.

It seems things in 4e -- not just monsters, everything -- is really focused on being used for a specific purpose, and it does that job very very well, much better than its 3e counterpart did -- but at the same time, it is less useful when you try to do something else with it. 3e gave you a swiss army knife; 4e gives you a big box of high quality tools. Advantage -- each tool is much better at its job. Disadvantage -- you have to keep swapping tools. (The wolf you fight in the woods isn't the same as the wolf your druid has his animal companion, etc.)

 

[Jack99]

It's what I consider to be most in keeping with the spirit of the rules. The idea is that PCs get more complicated rules because the spotlight is on them all the time. NPCs get abbreviated rules because they usually come and go. An NPC who joins the party is one on whom the spotlight will shine quite a lot (if only by reflected light), and so should be treated differently to run-of-the-mill NPCs.

I agree, that it makes some sense. But in the case of healing, have we had confirmed that you can not heal someone without surges? Because the text of Healing Word sounds to me, as if the spell has two effects: target can get a surge, and he heals 1d6+4 damage. That would make it possible to heal monsters, just less efficiently than normal characters.