Monster ECLs, Part 2 (was "Lizardfolk = 4?!?")

[bret]

Thursday I will get to try Ghorgor, my 3rd level fighter ogre.

[ snip ]
HP 84/84 (4D8+ 3D10+ 42)*

AC 24 (Touch 10, flatfooted 24), Movement 30

D8=5, D10=6 + first level maxed

Shouldn't it be the first Monster hit dice that is maxed instead of the first class hit dice?

I would expect it to be 8 + 3*5 + 3 * 6 + 42 = 83 HP.

One hit point isn't going to matter much here, but if we were looking at a different sort of class and creature it could matter.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Monsters don't get their first HD maxed but PC classes do. That's why I did it this way.

Until Tooth&Claw comes out we'll have to take a few guesses.

 

[Spatula]

Spotted any error? Let me know before thursday!

AC 24 (Touch 10, flatfooted 24)

His touch AC is 9 (-1 size).

Skills (21)

9 from Ogre, 12 from fighter

He gets 8 skill points from being an ogre (6 + 1/EHD + Int mod, as a Large creature a 4 HD ogre has 2 EHD) and 6 from his fighter levels (monsters with class levels don't get the extra skill points that normal 1st level characters do).

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

1-You are forgetting his ring of protection.

2-You are right, he gets 8 skill point for being an ogre.

But I do think he gets the extra skill point for level 1 under the ECL system. ECL races from FR most certainly do.

 

[Spatula]

1-You are forgetting his ring of protection.

2-You are right, he gets 8 skill point for being an ogre.

But I do think he gets the extra skill point for level 1 under the ECL system. ECL races from FR most certainly do.

None of which have built-in HD, as I recall.

 

[Wolfspider]

But I do think he gets the extra skill point for level 1 under the ECL system. ECL races from FR most certainly do.

Really? Interesting. But do the races from FR receive extra hit dice like the ogre does?

 

[Jasperak]

Mal, about the hit points thing... According to core rulebook II, pg 24 under other stats for monsters in the second paragraph, it states:

"for example, an ogre with no class levels has 4d8 HD... The first HD is treated as maximum, giving her 8 + 3d8 + (Constitution bonus x 4) hit points."

Unless this has been errated somewhere, I would have to assume this would change the hit points by one.

Good luck and I hope to hear how he does.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Really? Interesting. But do the races from FR receive extra hit dice like the ogre does?

No.

But the way I see it, ECL system is a package deal.

PC 1 is a human? He gets 1 bonus feat, +1 skill point each level, 4 at level and favored class any.

PC 2 is an ogre? He gets [open up MM and start spouting stats.

Then we add a class level and start to play ball.

Human's next level is in 1,000 XP. Ogre's next level is in 9,000 XP.
But they gain feat and attribute at the same rate. And I would assume they get the same treatment skillwise.

Sure, this is not what we do when advancing a monster with class level. But we are not talking of a monster here, but of a PC that should be treated like any other.

Teeth&Claw is going to be quite a bit different than what we see in the DM's guide and I would expect it to work as I described.

Still, I will cut down on his skills for purpose of the test run (It's been edited).

Jasperak: thanks, I'll cut down his HP.

 

[thundershot]

I can't possibly wade through the other post, but about awakened animals... The Awaken spell gives them +2 HD, which means some of them actually have MORE HD than what counts for a level. It all makes sense now... The ECL +0 Weasel has 3 HD and 0 XP. It gets 1,000 XP and becomes a level one bard. 4 HD but second level... Interesting...


Chris (rambling..)

 

[Wolfspider]

I can't possibly wade through the other post, but about awakened animals... The Awaken spell gives them +2 HD, which means some of them actually have MORE HD than what counts for a level. It all makes sense now... The ECL +0 Weasel has 3 HD and 0 XP. It gets 1,000 XP and becomes a level one bard. 4 HD but second level... Interesting...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. According to the guy working on the book, a creature's ECL is at bare minimum equal to its hit dice, so the weasel you mention would have ECL 3+ before any classes or special abilities are factored in.

Now, whether this is fair or not isn't so clear cut....