monster LA, ECL, and extra hit dice

[Nifft]

Guess I could drop the +2 to dex, then. And maybe the natual armor to +2. I'd like to try to leave the Str at +4, only because I like the idea of the ultimate bruiser player race.

What part of racial hit dice is in conflict with "ultimate bruiser"?

It's murder on spellcasters, not Barbarians.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Droogie]

Check out the Drow Racial Class in the Drow of the Underdark book. They take the Drow racial benefits and spread them out over the first 4 levels. The character doesn't get class levels at 2nd and 4th level. Those are the 2 levels in exchange for the +2 LA. You could do the same for the bugbear over 6 levels with 3 of the character levels being non-class levels.

Thanks,
Rich

Those are the monster level rules introduced in Savage Species, I believe. They are great if you want to play a creature from first level, but since the player's bugbear is currently ECL 5, we are past the point where these rules are necessary.

For reference, Catfolk get +4 dex, +2 cha, +1 natural armour, and +10' speed and are LA +1. They are a very, very strong LA +1.

Bugbears, FYI (according to the MM): +4 str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha. Darkvision 60'. +4 move silently. +3 natural armor. 3 humanoid HD. LA +1.

Hmm. Guess the bugbear is a pretty hefty +1 as well.

What part of racial hit dice is in conflict with "ultimate bruiser"?

It's murder on spellcasters, not Barbarians.

Ah-ha, but how do we do it without the racial hit dice?


I owe you guys more details: the player is running a bugbear in a game I run only occasionally.

When the character was first created, I first told him he could swap out the the 3 humanoid HD for regular PHB classes. Another player in our group balked at this, arguing that those "monster levels" were all-natural, and intrinsic to the LA +1. If I were to swap them with class levels, I should bump the LA to +2. I agreed with his arguement, and I did so.

Fast forward to now. The bugbear player is feeling the bite of the LA +2 and is understandably unhappy. I told him that if you want class levels AND the LA +1, we were going to have to start chopping out racial bonuses. And thus, a thread was born.

So the question is, how much do we chop? Hell, I wouldn't mind chopping it down to a LA +0 race if I could, but I think it would lose its "bugbearishness" at that point.

Might have to tell him to take the bugbear HD. Take it like a man.

Or maybe I'll just wait till 4th ed.

And thanks for the help, friends.

 

[Urbannen]

Tell him he has to take the racial HD. Just play the race as written and designed. If he's playing a bugbear for RP reasons, he'll accept it. A bugbear fighter-type or rogue should be competitive. Otherwise he's just trying to get the good without the bad and should choose a normal race like everyone else.

 

[Nifft]

When the character was first created, I first told him he could swap out the the 3 humanoid HD for regular PHB classes. Another player in our group balked at this, arguing that those "monster levels" were all-natural, and intrinsic to the LA +1.

Another player is wise.

Might have to tell him to take the bugbear HD. Take it like a man.

Do this. It's the fair way to get him down to LA +1, and it brings the bugbear back in line with the other PCs.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Drowbane]

This represents the inherent badassery of the Bugbear. Your "standard, run of the mill" BugBear has 3 HD. Your "standard, run of the mill" Human is a commoner 1...

And for what its worth, a Bugbear Barbarian 1 can go toe to toe with a Human Barbarian 5.

Personally, I'd look for something else... but I'm a Non-Repentant and Shameless Min/Maxing Powergamer (tm).

edit: My human grave-touched-ghoul (1) Barbarian 1 / Rog 3 would totally own your Bugbear and/or your silly human barbar 5. Mwahahahaha!

 

[Arkhandus]

Stick with the LA +2. Maybe allow this optional rule from Unearthed Arcana, to gradually buy off the Level Adjustment by paying some XP after a certain number of actual class levels.

 

[Droogie]

Stick with the LA +2. Maybe allow this optional rule from Unearthed Arcana, to gradually buy off the Level Adjustment by paying some XP after a certain number of actual class levels.

I'd rather not stick with the +2, since it is murder on the hp at low levels and it gives the player a frowny face. I don't blame him.

The player is indeed planning on using the UA sub-prime mortgage option. However, I am unhappy with the xp system as written and was planning on fiddling with it, which could could complicate things further.