MONSTER MANUAL 4: More Monsters/Less Fluff or Vice Versa?

[delericho]

After "Complete Psionic" showed us the new stat block format, with all the omissions therein, I was extremely dubious about whether I'd even consider MMIV. However, the previews have shown that they've set right virtually all of the issues that I had in that direction. There are a few things I'm not keen on (not having the environment listed prominently at the top of the block, typical treasure in place of the old entry), but otherwise I think it's an improvement.

I also like that they've included longer write-ups of the monsters beyond the stats. At this point, the monsters are all new, and don't have the wealth of lore about them that many of the previous monsters did. Therefore, I can't look back for "Ecology of the Wizened Elder" to find out how it should be used. Including this material makes it easier to build an adventure around the creatures, which is a good thing.

My big concern now revolves around the various advanced versions of existing creatures that are in the book. There are some orcs and drow (amongst others) that are just members of their race with class levels. If these are given full two-page write-ups I will be less than happy. If, however, they provide just the raw stats in a short appendix, I'll actually consider that pages well spent. Which way they go on that issue will determine whether I buy this book or not.

 

[Graf]

I’m more concerned (if that’s the right word) about the actual monster the selected.

If “cranky little treant dude” is the coolest monster they have going…. this is going to be one uninteresting book. Not a terrible monster or anything, but it’s just a mixture of already existing powers with a few hit dice of plant. It entangles, then it hits you… why?
Because it’s cranky…. and old….
(Unless it’s some sort of homage to the Daily Show…. “I’m ooooollldd <wak> <wak>”)

 

[jbuck]

can one on you please post a link to the experpt i can't find it on the wizards site.

 

[Bront]

I HATE the new statblock.

Then again, I don't even own MMI.

 

[Heathen72]

They're writing more and more material for lazy people. Adventures, Knowledge checks, Sample NPCs, and now Sample Encounters and Typical Treasure? Or is this something to make the D&D Minis game easier?

Yeah, those lazy GM's make me sick. The way they build those stories, write up NPC's and adjust the monsters they should be ashamed of themeselves. And don't get me started on the way they lounge away developing stories, building dungeons, reading new rules, adjudicating ...

Ahhhh, I'm too lazy to go on being such a smartass!

To be a little less facetious...
I don't think I am the only one to have lamented the increase in prep time needed to GM's. I just don't have the same time to devote to game preparation that I did when we I was a student, or even just when I was in my 20's! And I would prefer to spend as little of that time mucking about with the 'crunch' as possible. (Which is why I use Monster Manuals in the first place). It's not a matter of laziness. It's more a matter of time management and prioritizing.* I'm not a huge fan of WOTC, but I if this is indicative of the rest of the MMIV I think this time they have got it right. They've recognized that increased prep time is as an issue for one of their top (if not their top) demographic, and have done something about it. Good on them (and thanks for spruiking the MMIV to me).

But let's not go off topic.

It's your thread!



*Yes, there are more important things in my life then D&D.

 

[Gold Roger]

In my book, the new format gives various people happy with various things. I've little use for the tactics and equipment sections (prefer to do such stuff myself).

But I love, love, love the tables for knowledge (sorry, I want to spend my prep time better than writing knowledge tables that may be used and am bad with them on the fly).

I also like example encounters I can spontaniously drop in when things go that way.

Ecology and society are nice and something many people where clamoring for.

Now, I agree the wizened elder is a bad choice to present as example. You don't kill them and take their stuff, nor do they lend themselfs to interaction (looks to me like "We need plant Monsters, people don't use those enough."-"Great, lets make elusive creatures about no one ever interacts with!"), but that's an entire different gripe and it seems every monster book has such creatures.


I guess, the old "you can't make everyone happy" holds true.

If no one can complain that he didn't get what he wanted he complains he gets stuff he doesn't want.

 

[DaveMage]

Lazy people? How about people with lives, and not enough time to devote to rolling up treasure for high ECL parties, create their own monsters, or plan in-depth encounters?

Sure, I wouldn't use all the information they give, but some people would. I'd use some of it, certainly, and if I were caught in a pinch with not enough time to prepare for a game, I'd certainly be overjoyed for a useful tool like an encounter already made for me.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Garnfellow]

I could take a little more fluff than was in the original Monster Manual. I thought the FF got the mix just about right. But for my tastes, with MMIV WotC seems to has pushed the pendulum way too far toward the fluff end of the spectrum. I can see utility and value in things like Knowledge checks, sample encounters and (to a lesser extent) sample treasures, but from the few excerpts I've seen, so much of this extra fluff just reads like filler to pad out the page.

 

[Razz]

So don't be a DM if one cannot make the time.

It's only a strong opinion that I have with WotC books as of late. A lot of material I scoff at because I would rather have the tools to create my own material than to use things I will only ever use once in my gaming such as adventures and sample encounters. Sample NPCs are just a waste, I always make my own, and the new PrC format telling you how to play a PrC is also a waste because I and my players tailor the PrC "fluff" to their own likings. I can name more and more things. Does this stop me from buying WotC books? No, as long as they still give a healthy dose of PrC, feats, spells, monsters, tools, good "fluff" (like those in Power of Faerun and Hordes of the Abyss), etc. in the books.

That's what I thought D&D was, making the game your own using the rules given and a sprinkling of rules from Unearthed Arcana and house ruling stuff. Not being spoon-fed everything to you.

Maybe everyone likes the spoon-feeding, but I'm not a "baby" to the game and feel the material is unnecessary, a lot of it deserves to simply be D&D website articles.

But again, it's my opinion on the matter, and for all I know, all these weird changes with the format from PrC to monsters might be the "4E" everyone's looking for. Who knows?

 

[Razz]

I could take a little more fluff than was in the original Monster Manual. I thought the FF got the mix just about right. But for my tastes, with MMIV WotC seems to has pushed the pendulum way too far toward the fluff end of the spectrum. I can see utility and value in things like Knowledge checks, sample encounters and (to a lesser extent) sample treasures, but from the few excerpts I've seen, so much of this extra fluff just reads like filler to pad out the page.

My thoughts exactly, there needs to be a happy medium between the two. And there never is. Either it's too much crunch (which makes one such as me happy, but isn't fair to everyone else) or too much fluff. Lately, there's just been too much fluff. I get my fluff from Dragon Magazine or my own imagination, I have no need for this in WotC books I pay $30+ for monthly.

But wherever WotC gets their customer feedback from sounds like it's from teenagers and pre-teens to me. No one will ever know what goes on inside their minds, but it's looking pretty sad to me from my perspective.